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Brent

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PostSubject: Question for Tavo   Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:38 am

First of all, Merry Christmas and happy birthday Tavo...and now on to the meat. I got this 1961 blonde bassman on ebay for $1300???? WTF? I know the speakers have been replaced but who cares...have a look and try to go easy on me as to what I have done. I just figured I was loosing money by not buying this lol!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360220423238&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:42 pm

thanks Brett for the well wishes!! Well hot dog brother you have yourself a wonderful
machine there!! I did the same thing over the holidays and bought a 64' blonde 6G6-B in
transitional black with matching cab.

Okay I can tell you what you purchased but you have to promise not to have a heart attack like
I did when I found out after the fact that it wasnt only the speakers they'd screwed up but rather
the output transformer... BUT I DONT CARE, I now have the super cool and rare late 64 blonde
just like you now own a very very collectable and rare piece of Fender history!! holy crap a 61' 6G6!!

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:03 pm

Good to hear TV. I can keep a secret... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:33 pm

Brent wrote:
Good to hear TV. I can keep a secret... Very Happy

sorry I was jsut being silly..
The 6G6 is more complex in the "bass" channel than the later
6G6-B and has much more gain on tap. probably why Pete Townsend, Steve Miller, Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hendrix and Joe Walsh all appreciated the bassman.
In that channel you can change one input resistor and clip out the capacitor that bleeds the treble to
ground for a seriously smoking marshall JTM45 sound.. but thats the bass channel.
The normal channel is a tad bit different but you will have to pull the rectifier tube out and plug in
the Solid State rectifier tube plug to get the tight rockabilly sound. you can get it anywhere and it
runs like $11.


The thing I see about your 61' is that it seems to have an 8ohm output transformer as the
speaker compliment is an 8ohm load (2 16ohm speakers). The stock OT is suppose to be 4ohms for
2 jensen 8ohm speakers ALTHOUGH some came with an 8ohm transformer for use of a a 1x15 cab
ala surf music.
While you got a deal because the power tranny is a replacement, the output transformer and choke
are vintage Iron. It would be interesting to see if 2 16ohm vintage 30s would give the same uber tight
low mids response that the later 6G6-B's 4ohm output does.

For what its worth.. this early 64; blonde transitional I have came with a damn OT replacement from
Hammond. A very "clinical" replacement but strangely the amp "feels" more vintage than my completely stock 63' blonde.

All to say if you are good with a soldering iron I would be happy to "coach" you on replacing those old
Astron and Mallory "sausage" caps with either new mallory 150 series caps (like gomez) or Orange drop 716
series caps like I enjoy (marsh uses these). From the picts they did put orange drops in the pwr section and
the really nice sprague atom electrolytics in the filter section. I have those and it makes sooo much difference in the fretboard response of the gretsch!
Funny my cab was loaded with these old marshall standard "celestion G12T=75" 16ohm speakers and I just got a v30 and g12h heritage to replace them. Who knows those "magnalabs" could sound good?

Please ask the tech if he can verify the OT being a 4ohm or 8ohm. Maybe he could be convinced to "get" the amp to 6G6-B specs in the normal channel for you before you have it sent to you? Even
retube it and adjust the bias w/ that SS plug in rectifier? Then alll you are left with is speaker replacement and soldering in a few capacitors? oh ya... working inside a chassis can and will kill your heart if you touch a filtercap and it discharges across your hands. I am suppose to tell you that.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:24 pm

Tavo...I said it before and I'll say it again. You da man! I'm going to plug it in when it arrives and see how she sounds before I go and electrocute myself...
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:58 pm

Brent wrote:
Tavo...I said it before and I'll say it again. You da man! I'm going to plug it in when it arrives and see how she sounds before I go and electrocute myself...

naw man.. just a fan of the blonde!!! Smile So happy for ya

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:15 am

congrats on the score!

Until I have the dough ready for a blonde, I'm living through these threads Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:55 pm

Tavo, I'm new to the forum so I don't know all of you. I'm guessing that since you designed and built a pedal (very cool idea by the way, and by the sounds of things a surefire hit) you pretty much know what the hell you are talking about. I'm looking into getting a 6G6-B myself. Where I live (Canada), I don't have the kind of vintage market that is accessible in the states; I have however found a replica by Marsh amps. Question for you, 1)have you heard of these amps and if so 2)how do they compare to the real thing. Thanks for the help.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:34 pm

jonnykool wrote:
Tavo, I'm new to the forum so I don't know all of you. I'm guessing that since you designed and built a pedal (very cool idea by the way, and by the sounds of things a surefire hit) you pretty much know what the hell you are talking about. I'm looking into getting a 6G6-B myself. Where I live (Canada), I don't have the kind of vintage market that is accessible in the states; I have however found a replica by Marsh amps. Question for you, 1)have you heard of these amps and if so 2)how do they compare to the real thing. Thanks for the help.

Thanks JK and I am glad you are part of us here!!
I dont know that I know what I'm always talking about but I try to have
my facts straight. If not these guys are ready to straighten me out quick. Smile

right now the only one building a true replica of the 63' blonde 6G6-B IS
Marshamps. Gomez was building one that I use to carry called the "el sonido"
but Marsh is doing it more affordably and with really great components.
Ronnie Crutcher of the Hillbilly casino had his 63' blonde go down a while back
and I directed him to Marsh. He's playin his all the time now. Andy on our forum
just took shipment of one in the UK.

Diggey on our forum is trying to sell his Gomez El sonido version if you want something
right now. The El Sonido is a seriously solid/overbuilt version. Its a sonic brute actually but I trusted it enough to use a while back when I got the opportunity to open for Junior Brown. I was actually more fearful my original 63' would crap out on me just because
I was actually playin sunset strip with a guitar hero of mine.
So.. I think those two clone builds are really the only modern choices floating around.
Clark amps is building a bassman clone called the Piedmont but its not what youre lookin
for.

FWIW.. by summer's time I should have my first amplifier avail. Its gonna be a mini blonde or rather just the normal channle of a blonde (the one we all use) inside the
cab of a fender princeton 1x12.. Just to have the prototype sussed out is gonna cost
a grand so I'd say Marsh really does have a great bargain and can afford to sell them
at a cost most of us cant even afford to build out.

here's ronnie c. rockin his

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:23 am

hi jonnykool
Im andy (username booty) who Tavo mentioned that had a Marsh amp shipped to England and I must say they really are a fantastic amp.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:56 am

I had no idea Ronnie wanted such a Setzer tone. He went all out! I imagine hes got a Nocturn
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:35 pm

mjcodina wrote:
I had no idea Ronnie wanted such a Setzer tone. He went all out! I imagine hes got a Nocturn

I think his tone is more agro like Rev Horton but real twangy, as he's been using
an Airbrake attenuator to turn the amp up full tilt at club levels.

regarding the Nocturne, yes indeed! he has one to match his Lime gold 6120SH (by Franky's foot)


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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:47 pm

Cool with colours that match 6120 hot rods!
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:50 pm

all ya need to do is buy the line 6 spider3 or spider 3 jam and and its got the 59 bassman built right in there.......!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbRMEBRWk4
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:27 pm

matt wrote:
all ya need to do is buy the line 6 spider3 or spider 3 jam and and its got the 59 bassman built right in there.......!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQbRMEBRWk4

I'm smiling when I say this (ie. not being sarcastic) but
one setzer doesnt use '59 tweed bassmans for most album or any live performances. A 59's bassman compressed
and saturates in its tweedy style. Truly a cool amp but not really a Setzer thing, much much different animal.
I was playing my buddy's a month ago with a Gretsch 6120W, nocturn and his 80s Boss Dm2 analog delay..WOW
just incredible with the Dynasonic pickups.

Secondly, while I'm all for line 6 products. I own a Line 6 POD for recording and bought my kid a DL4 and tone core liquaflange, crunch box and uber metal. ...but that stuff is a very sterile ,modern sounding thing live. Dynamically
very limited on its own.

BUT....Not true when recording, its very easy to fool the average ear with the Line 6 Amp farm or POD when recording.
In fact I'm finding that running a nocturne infront of digi effects makes them more organic n fat. I've got a solid
state Fender Princeton 90 DSP amp that is quite decent that way.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:46 pm

Tavo I just bought the sider 3 today with my xmass money and I gota say this amp is fantastic...!!!
sorry Its not the 59 bassman thats built In It's the 58 bassman and and the 53 tweed bassman and you can mix the two together and boy..!!
It sure sure sound's gooooood with the brain seltzer whooopee cheer's there is now way on earth I could possibly pay 1566.00 for a real bassman
and that's just a reissue
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:02 pm

matt wrote:
Tavo I just bought the sider 3 today with my xmass money and I gota say this amp is fantastic...!!!
sorry Its not the 59 bassman thats built In It's the 58 bassman and and the 53 tweed bassman and you can mix the two together and boy..!!
It sure sure sound's gooooood with the brain seltzer whooopee cheer's there is now way on earth I could possibly pay 1566.00 for a real bassman
and that's just a reissue

Thats good to hear, and it would be great to actually "hear" some demo's of that rig. Time to post a video!
regarding amps.
Fender's prices are stupid ridiculous and I think that is why I started buying old silverface amps and trying out
different speakers and cabs. What is crazy are the reissues dont really sound or feel like original amps.
I have had the priviledge to record with original 60s red panel AC30s and these new ones are not even close..
Right now there are a lot of small-ish builders that are putting out low wattage versions of vintage amps and
are doing it right.. Marsh amps for example.
Btw.. what is the "cats pajamas" build in scotland? I'm sure there are plenty of younger guys laying out really cool
gear? Seems to be a new trend in Australia and new zealand for sure.

ps.
You know on the side of Line 6 amps, I went to see this all day band thing a while back and a trio got
up to play. Everyone was jumpin up n down and not being the tallest guy I could see the singer from his
guitar up. His tone was incredible as he was strummin n singin with a 52' butterscotch reissue. I swore he
was playin through some delicious tweed amp and wanted to take a look so I pushed my way up
for a look.. guess what it was? Smile A Spider with a real good mic going into a seriously expensive EAW sound
system.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:22 am

This maybe be offtopic but since the digital stuff came up, I'd like to say my 2 cents worth. Very Happy

Sometime in 90s I visited a local small studio where a friend of mine was workin' and they had
a red line6 pod, I spose it was one of the first types, im not sure. Anyways, we did have a go with
it to lay couple of heavy tracks and it had a 5150 modeling. I own a 5150 combo and the pod had
tons of gain but for me it didn't sound close to real deal:



That combo is a killer for metal type of stuff.

I know things have developed in the modeling biznes ever since. In a positive way.

Nowadays I own a Vox SE which I use a lot :


Which IMO sounds perty good with my gretsch SSL, I use the bassman with 2x12 setup,
but im not sure if the bassman is the tweed-59 tyoe or what. It's not perfect but it works.

I can record it straight to PC, I can use it straight via PA (mixers) and it has decent software
to edit/backup sounds. I usually use 2 sounds, the other with more gain. It also has tape kinda delay.

All im saying that nowadays these "modeling" pedals or amps sounds pretty decent.
And they are rather cheap compared to Marsh or original Bassman and you'd need the
Nocturne and some delay too. That Vox was about 400€ couple years back.

I know it's sort of heresy to get caught on playing digital gear, hehe, but it's just so easy
to plug it in and off you go.


Listen to this tune, it's just me playing 2 tracks on SSL, no bass and some drums innit.
Guitars are straight to PC via that Vox pedal. (It's a traditional song spose to be played with accordian)

Jenkka.mp3

It has maybe too much gain and the pick sound is very audible but that was the sound I was
going for. And what with heavy picks you get a lot of attack quite easily.

It sounds OK to my ears, I don't think its easy to hear if it's modeled or not.

Smile

I need to put the Nocturne on front of that Vox bassman and record something saomeday...
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:03 pm

Thanks for the reply on the Marsh Amps Repilca bassman. I used to work at a guitar store that dealt with a lot of Spider Amps and Line 6 products in general. Like the saying goes in the hot rod world and could be used here with a little imagination: there's no replacement for engine displacement. But if it sounds good, use it. Now to go and save money for the Bassman replica.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:35 am

tvthewiredturtle wrote:


Thanks JK and I am glad you are part of us here!!
I dont know that I know what I'm always talking about but I try to have
my facts straight. If not these guys are ready to straighten me out quick. Smile

right now the only one building a true replica of the 63' blonde 6G6-B IS
Marshamps. Gomez was building one that I use to carry called the "el sonido"
but Marsh is doing it more affordably and with really great components.
Ronnie Crutcher of the Hillbilly casino had his 63' blonde go down a while back
and I directed him to Marsh. He's playin his all the time now. Andy on our forum
just took shipment of one in the UK.

Diggey on our forum is trying to sell his Gomez El sonido version if you want something
right now. The El Sonido is a seriously solid/overbuilt version. Its a sonic brute actually but I trusted it enough to use a while back when I got the opportunity to open for Junior Brown. I was actually more fearful my original 63' would crap out on me just because
I was actually playin sunset strip with a guitar hero of mine.
So.. I think those two clone builds are really the only modern choices floating around.
Clark amps is building a bassman clone called the Piedmont but its not what youre lookin
for.

FWIW.. by summer's time I should have my first amplifier avail. Its gonna be a mini blonde or rather just the normal channle of a blonde (the one we all use) inside the
cab of a fender princeton 1x12.. Just to have the prototype sussed out is gonna cost
a grand so I'd say Marsh really does have a great bargain and can afford to sell them
at a cost most of us cant even afford to build out.

here's ronnie c. rockin his

Man that is a killer rig!

I would say Marsh is probably the only builder that is taking consistant orders for these. Gomez seems to only build these during the spring/summer and you have to have your order in around march-ish. Clark only lists his tweed bassman, but I've heard that he will build a blonde bassman. Lux-tone amps, seems to be a relatively new builder making a blond bassman called the "Blondie-B" haven't heard any word on how that build is.

Tavo, your mini blonde sounds awesome and portable. Good luck during the R&D and prototype-ing.

Is the 6G6-B's bass channel pretty useless for guitar stock? I hear people gush over the 6G6 bass channel for guitar, mostly for the rock stuff like Hendrix, The Who and punk stuff ala Social D.

Marsh does seem to offer some value, and Gomez seems to have the most overbuilt one...wiring, components, covers, warranty, etc. I'd still love to get into a good vintage 6G6-B.

If money grew on trees, I'd have one of each builder and each vintage model, and pick the best of the bunch...or have one built up to specs Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:27 pm

the 6G6-B bass channel is amazing for guitar. Once I clipped out the little cap that goes
to ground for bleeding off the treble ( Leo was crazy huh?) that channel is my strat and
tele channel. also loved it best for my Spectrasonic! Has more gain on tap and goes marshall apesh$t when the treble is opened.

The earlier 61' 6G6 's bass channel had a more complex bass channel than the later blondes.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:45 am

tvthewiredturtle wrote:
the 6G6-B bass channel is amazing for guitar. Once I clipped out the little cap that goes
to ground for bleeding off the treble ( Leo was crazy huh?) that channel is my strat and
tele channel. also loved it best for my Spectrasonic! Has more gain on tap and goes marshall apesh$t when the treble is opened.

The earlier 61' 6G6 's bass channel had a more complex bass channel than the later blondes.

That's funny! Seems like a ton of people are looking for that Marshall and fender in one amp, and it came around with the Bassman (makes sense since Jim Marshall used the 5f6-A as his muse). Man that mod might be a tremendous fit for me. One of my current favorite blonde bassman tones is an old SG Jr or ES-330 into one, Jay Bennett used this set up with maybe a couple pedals (MXR micro amp, dyna comp) and hotplate back when Wilco was more Replacements and Rolling Stones than noisey yuppie rock (I still dig them though). It just sounded so punchy and muscular, you could hear all notes in the guitar fills and guitar interplay. I can only imagine that the Spectra Sonic could get me into that neighborhood. The hotplate might be something worth looking into as well...I've never considered an attenuator for a minute.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:46 pm

Tavo,
Got some Celstion V30's that I want to put in that 61 Blonde...they are 8hms and the speakers coming out are 16...do i need to do anything to the rig? Just don't want to blow anything up...

Brent
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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:58 am

Brent wrote:
Tavo,
Got some Celstion V30's that I want to put in that 61 Blonde...they are 8hms and the speakers coming out are 16...do i need to do anything to the rig? Just don't want to blow anything up...

Brent

is that 61' bassman an 8ohm transformer or 4ohm? 2 16ohm speakers in parallel
make 8ohms... 2 8ohms in parallel make 4ohms..


If it is a 61' blonde bassman it is a 6G6 circuit and not the post 62' 6G6-B
some of the early 6G6 blondes with Oxblood grills and tube rectifiers indeed
had an 8ohm transformer..

all others had a 4ohm transformer.. you can stick 8 or16 ohms on a 4 ohm transformer but not the other way around.

if you wired your two 8 ohm speakers in series for a 16ohm load it would work but
would sound like complete ass (lean flabby lows and waaay early distortion)

Gonna have to verify transformer codes because chassis stamp and tube chart stamp dont mean anything.

My main blonde 6G6-B bassman has an early 64' chart and the grill has sparkle in the grill. the chassis stamp signifies early 64' but all my transformers are 63'.

Same with the transitional tuxedo early 64' 6G6-B I have. Chassis stamps are 63'.
face place is black and rear plate is brown. PT code is 63'

Fender was crazy in the early 60s.

btw.. if you dont have a rectifier tube chances are very high your transformers are
62' ?? and 4ohm. tranny codes speak your truth.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for Tavo   Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 pm

Okie Dokie...assuming I'm looking at the right thingy it has the numbers 022871 and under that E1A 606-14...am I looking at the transformer?...I just play through these things Wink
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