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 TV... might be Gretsch hunting...

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ruger9

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PostSubject: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:00 am

Your expertise is required sir.

In a nutshell, what are the differences between the Setzer Signatures & Hot Rods (both TVJ-Equipped and FMIC), tone-wise & playability wise? I know the specs, but I was curious as to just how different (or the same) these 2 axes are, since the main difference (tonally) really only seems to be the wiring/electronics.

On the body depth... I would imagine that would change the sound acoustically more than electrically. But I'm not really buying the guitar for an acoustic sound. I have an Ibanez Artcore (deep body) that sounds wonderful acoustically, but feeds back like crazy. I've always wanted a Setzer, the Artcore was a stopgap, I'm getting ready to sell a bunch of gear & go for a Setzer. But no one around here has ANY Hot Rods, and the Signatures are rust stringed/untuneable/setup needed badly guitars at local GCs. Just awful. So I'll be buying sight-unplayed.

So, ELECTRICALLY, I guess what I'm afraid of is, the HR will be too bright due to the short harness (little capacitance loading) and the Sig might be a bit warmer due to it's long harness...2 more knobs & a tone switch... (more capacitance loading). Didn't you have a guitar's mud switch rigged to give you the Hot Rod's harness one way, and the 6120 the other? That would be the perfect comparison.

I'm looking exclusively for Setzer tones, both BSO and '68 CS.

Then there's the whole orange laquer or red poly issue, but that's just my personal problem. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:15 pm

ruger9 wrote:
Your expertise is required sir.

In a nutshell, what are the differences between the Setzer Signatures & Hot Rods (both TVJ-Equipped and FMIC), tone-wise & playability wise? I know the specs, but I was curious as to just how different (or the same) these 2 axes are, since the main difference (tonally) really only seems to be the wiring/electronics.

On the body depth... I would imagine that would change the sound acoustically more than electrically. But I'm not really buying the guitar for an acoustic sound. I have an Ibanez Artcore (deep body) that sounds wonderful acoustically, but feeds back like crazy. I've always wanted a Setzer, the Artcore was a stopgap, I'm getting ready to sell a bunch of gear & go for a Setzer. But no one around here has ANY Hot Rods, and the Signatures are rust stringed/untuneable/setup needed badly guitars at local GCs. Just awful. So I'll be buying sight-unplayed.

So, ELECTRICALLY, I guess what I'm afraid of is, the HR will be too bright due to the short harness (little capacitance loading) and the Sig might be a bit warmer due to it's long harness...2 more knobs & a tone switch... (more capacitance loading). Didn't you have a guitar's mud switch rigged to give you the Hot Rod's harness one way, and the 6120 the other? That would be the perfect comparison.

I'm looking exclusively for Setzer tones, both BSO and '68 CS.

Then there's the whole orange laquer or red poly issue, but that's just my personal problem. Smile

before I write anything I have to ask, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE TONE YOU
SEE and HEAR on SETZERS BSO RECORDINGS? IF SO... he does not use the post fender
trestle braced hotrod guitars unless he is playing his phoenix, spectra c-melody or SSL.
He uses the pre fender standard sound post and dual rails. He even is quoted in Guitar
Player magazine saying He doesnt like the nashvilles with all the wood inside, he likes
the simple "3 pieces of wood, 2 rails and post" guitars that are more resonant.
There is a major difference in the way the guitar responds, and I personally do not
like trestle bracing as it makes the guitar sound too Gibson, may as well use a duojet or
spectrasonic. The trestles indeed add more sustain but they attenuate the low mids
woof which results in a more sleek and jangley top end. This is why on my last 2
hotrods ( i dont learn easily ) I had to change the stock tvjones filters for a set of
supertrons in one and magnatrons in the other trying to get the guitars to sound more
like my 99 SSU. The one thing the newer models do get right is the thinner guitar top.
You want the uber thing 3ply not the 5 ply. The hotrods are still too thick and very much
unlike the recent SSL and SSU.
Body depth also matters, and that 1/4 more of depth on the Sig models allows the guitar
to keep that signature bark in the low mids that old gretsch guits are famous for. The thinner body and trestle bracing rocks way more, with extra sustain and sheen but if you
sit there and gush over Setzers moving bass lines over melodic inside chordings, you
KNOW the sound I'm talking about. The notes chirp and twang but are solid and piano
like.

Its interesting to watch his shows and to see how he favors the soundpost model
hotrod for the orchestra and then pull out the soundpost model flatblack hotrod with
the fat and ominous tvjones supertrons for the trio where he turns up the gain on the
space echo. Yes he pulls out his 59' for certain songs, mostly stray cat era stuff but
that candy apple late 90s hotrod is his baby.

Another big difference I have found on the Sig models versus the hotrods is that
more attention to fretboard shape, finish and fret dressing along with an extended
floating fretboard (where the fretboard extends past the body-neck joint on the guitar
top) makes the Sig model the clear winner in attention to detail and superior build.
the more the fretboard can be Off the guitar's top, the more it can resonate which
translates the guitars acoustic properties to the amp.

So thats my spew about body depth, bracing, fretboard float and top thickness...
(If you want a Setzer Sig model with a lacquer finish, no trestle bracing and the
thinnest top with the most wicked vintage dynamic..get the
G6120RHH model. The reverend basically took all the good stuff from the
Setzer SSL and took out the trestle bracing and added the late 60s fat headstock.
I loved mine but my mortgage said I couldnt stay in love)

Electronically with the Signature model you are adding a few feet extra of cabling capacitance and potentiometer resistance yielding attenuation in the presence of the instrument in comparison to the Hotrods simple harness with one pot, but thats only important again if you are after the Cat man's finger pickin BSO tone (which I love best).
He's looking for more edge in his sound to cut through the horn section, and that doesnt
equate to treble icepick sound, its a specific "clip" on the upper mids that accentuates
the Setzer twang nobody else seems to get.

But.. that is an easy things to take care of on either model guitar.
Stock Sigs and hotrods do Not have the vol kit (treble bleed) on them so the second
you start dialing down the vol. the sound starts getting darker as volume decreases.
This actually can allow you lower your brightness just with a 16th of a turn on the stock
models....but why settle for a bran muffin when you can have a Jelly filled doughnut.

2 scenarios to cure what ailse you on you gretsch:
If you have a stock hotrod and you wish you could have setzers tone, you need a vol. mod kit (treble bleed) installed, and if you want the versatility of then also having
a tone control because you might like to play with overdrives, distortions and fuzz boxes.. You up the mod on the vol pot to also be a push/pull pot that activates
a capacitor just like the tone switch does.

If you have a signature model and you want to have the same features as the
hotrods low capacitance, and you want to have a tone control but you hate the
stupid stock mudswitch (tone selector switch) you do what I did to my
Setzer Sig. I added the setzer vol. mod and also replaced the tone switch with a 500K tone pot and .047 cap, but its also a push/pull pot and the whole tone circuit is out of the harness until I pull up on the push-pull pot. I also swap the hot leads on all the
vol pots so the pkup vol. pots become blend controls giving me umpteen variations
of neck to bridge tone ratios instead of the stock stupid extra vol pots that cut off the
sound completely if one is turned down.

This way my guitar is wired like a Hotrod in default mode just like setzers with vol kit,
but when I am in my hard rock mode or shoegazer radiohead mode, or want to play
slide.. I pull that knob up and I have a great tone knob that is not limiting like that stupid gretsch tone switch.
A gretsch with a .047 cap allows you to turn back the tone with a saturated overdrive pedal or fuzz and have serious badass woman tone and faux synth leads ( mixing in a choppy trem and phaser with an envelope filter is fun times)

lets review:
How your guitar sounds acoustically is seriously important to how it will communicate
the body to the strings to the pkups to the amp.
Thin tops, extended floating fretboard and no trestle bracing are the best for everything except heavy blues and hard rock, we are talking rockabilly here at its finest.
If you love the sound of a gretsch that will take Billy duffy of the Cult, mix it with
Robert Smitch of the Cure and blend it with ACDC ..get a mid 90s gretsch with
a thick 5 ply top, almost no floating fretboard, and ceramic filtertrons..they are heavy and they KICK ASS through marshalls and mesa.
come to think of it Reverend Horton heats old white falcon does it in spades Psychobilly
style!

There are small differences in the the wiring between the hotrod and the sig but that
is all easily customized. I'm here for ya when you decide, let the sickness go epidemic
on what Brian Setzer has done for a gretsch Nashville!!

ps. I have had hotrods in Tangerine metallic and Purple metallic... I love
the Royale blue and satin black most.
here is a picture of the late Tavo's G6120SHTTV, it was a rockin monster
once I changed the pkups

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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:26 am

Alot to think about... let's go point by point, see if you can steer me any more in the right direction... thanks for bearing with me...

1) I'm definitely after the live BSO tones. Love the 68CS, but the BSO is what I'm looking for. I don't own a Gretsch, this is my 1st, and I have a line on a 2005 Sig. It's either buy that now, OR wait for a Hot Rod (I'm partial to the Red ones). After the Gretsch, I'm picking up a Marsh 6G6-B, as soon as one of my amps sells...

2) I just spent 2 hrs last night watching both the Xmas & Japan DVDs. He does love that 99 Red HR, but he also plays what appears to be a Setzer Sig. Which I would imagine has the trestle bracing? Actually, in the Xmas show, he plays the Sig for EVERY song with the Big Bnad, the Red 99 never makes an appearance. Either way, while there are small tone differences in all his guitars on those shows, ANY of them is plenty good enuff for me. Altho I don't want Supertrons. Being my 1st Gretsch, I'm sure anything I buy will slay me.

3) I definitely dig the low-mid bark he gets when he digs in (most noticeble on the Sig, but only barely.) The HRs do seem to sparkle a touch more, but again, we're nutballs who sit there & LOOK for this stuff. Basically, I'm done trying to get Brian's tone the hard way. I'm just going to buy the Gretsch, buy the Marsh, and be done with it. (still holding out for a pedal echo instead of the RE-301 if possible).

4)when you said "moving bass lines over inside chording/chirp/twang/pianolike" tones, which model were you referring to? I know exaclty what you're talking about, just unsure which model you were referring to.

5) I had also thought of modding a Hot Rod with a push-pull for tone... great minds think alike! I've already come to the conclusion if I get a sig I might be modding the tone caps anyway, to make them more useful (cut less highs). And I'll probably try the Hot Rod Mod (wiring option) as well.

6) I ALSO had the idea if I got a Hot Rod & found it a touch too "present", to simply replace the 500K pot with a 250K. I did this on my PRS One, and it worked great.

7)as for the differences in trestle vs. soundpost, I've read tons of info from both you & others on several forums. Without having 2 different guitars side-by-side, I can't know the differnce. However, didn't Brian make a big deal about getting his '59 CAT scanned, and then having Gretsch put the tressles in the Hot Rods? I seem to remember him saying "I'll tell you, those Hot Rods are as close as you're going to get (to a '59)" in an interview.


I'm really at the point where I would just take a sig OR Hot Rod just to be done with it. I've wanted one for years, and the time has come. Oh- and if Gretsch made a RED SPARKLE Hot Rod like Brian used on the last Xmas Xtrav, we wouldn't even be having this conversation! Silly to buy a guitar for the FINISH, but it's STILL a Gretsch!

Thanks, and please feel free to add more, I'm listening & learning!
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:19 am

ruger9 wrote:
Alot to think about... let's go point by point, see if you can steer me any more in the right direction... thanks for bearing with me...

1) I'm definitely after the live BSO tones. Love the 68CS, but the BSO is what I'm looking for. I don't own a Gretsch, this is my 1st, and I have a line on a 2005 Sig. It's either buy that now, OR wait for a Hot Rod (I'm partial to the Red ones). After the Gretsch, I'm picking up a Marsh 6G6-B, as soon as one of my amps sells...

2) I just spent 2 hrs last night watching both the Xmas & Japan DVDs. He does love that 99 Red HR, but he also plays what appears to be a Setzer Sig. Which I would imagine has the trestle bracing? Actually, in the Xmas show, he plays the Sig for EVERY song with the Big Bnad, the Red 99 never makes an appearance. Either way, while there are small tone differences in all his guitars on those shows, ANY of them is plenty good enuff for me. Altho I don't want Supertrons. Being my 1st Gretsch, I'm sure anything I buy will slay me.

3) I definitely dig the low-mid bark he gets when he digs in (most noticeble on the Sig, but only barely.) The HRs do seem to sparkle a touch more, but again, we're nutballs who sit there & LOOK for this stuff. Basically, I'm done trying to get Brian's tone the hard way. I'm just going to buy the Gretsch, buy the Marsh, and be done with it. (still holding out for a pedal echo instead of the RE-301 if possible).

4)when you said "moving bass lines over inside chording/chirp/twang/pianolike" tones, which model were you referring to? I know exaclty what you're talking about, just unsure which model you were referring to.

5) I had also thought of modding a Hot Rod with a push-pull for tone... great minds think alike! I've already come to the conclusion if I get a sig I might be modding the tone caps anyway, to make them more useful (cut less highs). And I'll probably try the Hot Rod Mod (wiring option) as well.

6) I ALSO had the idea if I got a Hot Rod & found it a touch too "present", to simply replace the 500K pot with a 250K. I did this on my PRS One, and it worked great.

7)as for the differences in trestle vs. soundpost, I've read tons of info from both you & others on several forums. Without having 2 different guitars side-by-side, I can't know the differnce. However, didn't Brian make a big deal about getting his '59 CAT scanned, and then having Gretsch put the tressles in the Hot Rods? I seem to remember him saying "I'll tell you, those Hot Rods are as close as you're going to get (to a '59)" in an interview.


I'm really at the point where I would just take a sig OR Hot Rod just to be done with it. I've wanted one for years, and the time has come. Oh- and if Gretsch made a RED SPARKLE Hot Rod like Brian used on the last Xmas Xtrav, we wouldn't even be having this conversation! Silly to buy a guitar for the FINISH, but it's STILL a Gretsch!

Thanks, and please feel free to add more, I'm listening & learning!

okay point 1) if that sig model is less than $1800 buy it, you will never be sorry.
my first gretsch was my sig model and its my #1 guitar. A Hotrod, if you strip
away all the hardware is a better paint job on a 6118. I just built out a new 6118
and it had a top thinner than my friends SSL, and the neck was almost spot on
the same feel as my hotrod in fretboard roundover and fret dressing. The extended
floating fretboard was built better than my 6120RHH. It was so good, it was worth
gutting it for p'trons and harness by tvjones.
Of course when you buy a hotrod, its all there in the box and you get cool colors...
Mind you, when it comes to these gretsch guitars, the lacquer coating is far less
tone robbing than heavy paint with then another coating of polyurethane.

point 2) That Xmas Dvd was when the Setzer sig with all the goods was recently
out and PBS was filming the show. That night it was ALL about that guitar all the way till
after the show ( i was sitting front row center ) when the curtain closed the guitar was laid out on the floor of the stage for photos. Serious product placement and marketing that night as well setzer was shredding and strutting like a mad man, and dressed the coolest ever (like a cowboy gentleman, no whacked circus outfits). All of his other Xmas
shows prior were not focused on that guitar. Last yr with the switch in set design and
jukebox-hiding-bassman amp, I have to say his sparkle hotrods made the nips perk for days and I too am into the sparkle. I have red sparkle furniture all over the place and
a red sparkle hotrod (actually I'd like it to be a Falcon) would rule! I'm with ya.

point 3) That mids-bark is perhaps more felt live than projected in a recording, to both the listener and most important the player.. The guitar interacts more with the closeback
cab and yes that can turn into feedback but holy sh%$ its the sweetest thing on the
earth in my book cuz its controlled and not a microphonic thing.
guitar first,amp second, pedals forever Smile

point 4) the Sig model over the hotrod

point 5) be sure to go the extra mile if you solder and use George L cabling, its
a bitch but wow! its taking belden heavy duty to the 9th level

point 6) couple things here, a filtertron is still a humbucker even though it doesnt
sound like one. There is nothing "bright" about em' like a single coil on a tele.
300K is about as low as you should go on humbuckers but sheeze doing that to
a filtertron is like putting cotton in your mouth and wrapping yourself in cellophane
at the beach. Smile Also remember ( i had a PRS and several hamers) the PRS is
a 26" scale with Buzz feiten tuning, that is serious string tension and its a double cutway
thin mahogany body with deep carved maple top to a body mounted stop tail piece or trem. This is one snappy guitar!
The gretsch nashville on the other hand is a 24.6" scale on a big jazz box with a floating
bridge, the other side of the world. I was use to strats and prs, so I really enjoy 11g strings on a gretsch. 12g is supreme for rhythm, wow!
side note: using a .047 mustard cap (sozo) on the 500K pots is MORE than enough to turn a maple gretsch into a dark brooding axe of jazz warmth. I prefer the Orange drops
and that still lets my take my Barber burn unit into clapton like leads with plenty of woman tone.

point 7) That was written indeed, but the same man was quoted in the Guitar Player magazine saying he didnt like all that "wood blocking" inside. He just likes 3 strips of
wood; 2 rails and a post because it lets the guitar really breathe.
So.. if you call a duck a duck because it has webbed feet and goes quack quack, I'd
say the quote in my guitar magazine along with the many yrs of seeing him with BSO,
and on japaneze video with an older Hotrod sez' he likes the pre fender.
I'm sure Mike Lewis wants him to quack about the more expensive sig models though!
Probably in the contract! http://www.gretschguitars.com/terada/

Brian sells gretsches for Fender, no doubt about it. He's their golden child!!
Hell he's my golden child!
Because of his talent and taste for tone, this picture exists... I swoon
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:29 am

Alrighty then. Seems everything is pointing me towards the Sig (even tho I'd love a Candy Apple Red Hot Rod as well). The Sig I have found is a mint condition SSLVO and is 2K shipped. That's the best price I've found so far. In the past, I've seen them go for as little as 1850 on ebay, but not in quite awhile. I just didn't know if I should jump on the Sig for $2K, or if I should hold out for a red Hot Rod, probably at around $1500... but who knows how long I'd have to wait...
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:57 pm

last question... I promise.

Are the necks on the SSLVO & Hot Rod the same? Both thin? I've read where the Hot Rod's are thin, but don't know about the SSLVO. I'm not a fan of baseball bats.
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:18 pm

ruger9 wrote:
last question... I promise.

Are the necks on the SSLVO & Hot Rod the same? Both thin? I've read where the Hot Rod's are thin, but don't know about the SSLVO. I'm not a fan of baseball bats.

No man, I mentioned in the masters thesis (sheeze was that a bag of hot wind or what)
that the fretboard endovers and fret dressings are night and day. The attention is
given mostly to the Signature model (this is all relative to other non setzer gretschs
than are unloved step children).
They say the newer radius is 9.45 but they all feel like gibsons now and I hate that.
I have a 9.5 radius with custom shop fatass low frets on my strat, I dont want that
thing happening on my gretsch. Plus there is too much meat from the mild C shape.
My 99' has a freakin 14" radius, flatter than heck. More wide than thick...so I am
biased. Interesting though that my 1-99 SSU doesnt have the strange mild V that
the 99 SSL does...
I mention this because the Hotrod does feel more "mild" in its c shape, I just wish there
was more space between the strings on the new necks.
Again its all relative with these guitars because the necks feel very very nice in comparison to any of the other box stock gretsch guits. My gretsch has had serious
TLC to get it where I feel it competes with a friends SSLVO (minus his awesome uber
thin top.. he got this guitar cheap because the top was so thin the volutes of the F hole where warping down)

btw.. I guess I should have started with "whats your definition of thin?" I am of small build at 5'6" 190lbs (fatass mofo) but have thin bamboo fingers.
If your a 6ft dude with big meaty paws, youre gonna hate the newer necks. A friend of mine in upstate new york for that very reason had me find him an anni from the 90s
and hop it up so he could fit his andre the giant wrists and fingers on the gretsch. He uses 13g strings and 1.0 picks.
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:03 pm

My #1 is a Fender American Std Tele, if that gives you any idea. Any thicker than that, and it's time for me to adapt.

BTW- I was really only asking about the neck shape/thickness, not the finish work.
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:03 am

Hi TV and Ruger9,

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I have got a real itch for a Hot Rod (damn this GAS - I just can't control it!! tongue bounce Shocked Very Happy )

I should say that my Power Tenny, Power Jet Firebird and RoundUp all play and sound great however they just dont sound close enough for me.

To get the 68CBS tone (I love the sound of his "pinstriped" flat black guitar) am I right in thinking I need a pre-fender model (pre-2003)??? but which years still had the thinner tops ?

What I really want to do is get hold of a cheap 90's model, have it painted flat black (if it isn't already - isnt this finish available only on the newer versions?), install a new TV Jones wiring harness (with treble bleed mod) and get a set of Supertrons installed and maybe finish it off with some subtle pinstriping Cool Cool Cool

So I suppose the question is which year /s of hot rods to try and track down and what would be a reasonable purchase price (I was thing around the $1,000 mark?)

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:47 pm

No one knows what year that black pinstripe is.

TV has said it has/had Supertrons in it, but I think he might have said at one point it might have had magnas? Tavo, chime in here...

Yes- the flat black is a "recent" addition to the Hot Rod line, not sure what year they started that color... 2005 maybe?

Personally, I think whether you get an "older" or "newer" hot rod is alot less important than the pickup choice. Put the right pickups in either, and you'll have no problem getting the 68CBS tones.

BTW- the treble bledd is AMAZING. I used the carbon comp resistors & orange drop like TV did, and it's unbelievable. The only downside (altho it's not really a downside), is no matter how far you turn down, you'll NEVER get that "bassy mellow jazz tone" from the neck pickup anymore. It stays THAT CLEAR. The volume knob is usable all the way down to 1, then it "shuts off".

For "bassy mellow jazz tones", I'll get an archtop jazzbox. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:01 pm

ruger9 wrote:
No one knows what year that black pinstripe is.

TV has said it has/had Supertrons in it, but I think he might have said at one point it might have had magnas? Tavo, chime in here...

Yes- the flat black is a "recent" addition to the Hot Rod line, not sure what year they started that color... 2005 maybe?

Personally, I think whether you get an "older" or "newer" hot rod is alot less important than the pickup choice. Put the right pickups in either, and you'll have no problem getting the 68CBS tones.

BTW- the treble bledd is AMAZING. I used the carbon comp resistors & orange drop like TV did, and it's unbelievable. The only downside (altho it's not really a downside), is no matter how far you turn down, you'll NEVER get that "bassy mellow jazz tone" from the neck pickup anymore. It stays THAT CLEAR. The volume knob is usable all the way down to 1, then it "shuts off".

For "bassy mellow jazz tones", I'll get an archtop jazzbox. Smile

Hi,

Cool - thanks for the info

From the official site the pinstripe guitar is a 2000 vintage.

It does have Supertrons - you can see them in the BSO Christmas Extravaganza DVD (I'm so geeky
Embarassed ) and you can also see them in the photo archive here


cheers
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:26 pm

2000 = pre-FMIC = no trestle braces, but thin tops. Note: the newer Hot Rods all have 3-ply (thinner) tops. I think they went thin when Fender took over in 2003, and have been that way ever since... again, TV can chime in here...
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:45 pm

ruger9 wrote:
2000 = pre-FMIC = no trestle braces, but thin tops. Note: the newer Hot Rods all have 3-ply (thinner) tops. I think they went thin when Fender took over in 2003, and have been that way ever since... again, TV can chime in here...

the '98 flatblack pinstripe was supposedly done by a painter pal Vince Ray.. (signed on the bottom right, under the devil) ray..but the guitar is the pre 2000 pre FMIC, note the extra "hole" where he dumped out the mud switch. ..or should I say tvjones rewired it for him. This is a tone post model and setzer's hotrods all have thin tops as he is quoted in his magazine specifying to Gretsch this and finding out that in stores they had botched it up with thicker tops.
This guitar also had drilled alum. saddles...gretsch didnt want to follow that
nice little twang mod by modica.
my Guit player mag 2001 october, he is shown with the flatblack striper loaded with
magnatrons at that time. no longer. supertrons make this sexy machine bump now!

here's a before and after:



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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:56 am

tvthewiredturtle wrote:
ruger9 wrote:
2000 = pre-FMIC = no trestle braces, but thin tops. Note: the newer Hot Rods all have 3-ply (thinner) tops. I think they went thin when Fender took over in 2003, and have been that way ever since... again, TV can chime in here...

the '98 flatblack pinstripe was supposedly done by a painter pal Vince Ray.. (signed on the bottom right, under the devil) ray..but the guitar is the pre 2000 pre FMIC, note the extra "hole" where he dumped out the mud switch. ..or should I say tvjones rewired it for him. This is a tone post model and setzer's hotrods all have thin tops as he is quoted in his magazine specifying to Gretsch this and finding out that in stores they had botched it up with thicker tops.
This guitar also had drilled alum. saddles...gretsch didnt want to follow that
nice little twang mod by modica.
my Guit player mag 2001 october, he is shown with the flatblack striper loaded with
magnatrons at that time. no longer. supertrons make this sexy machine bump now!


Hi,

Cool stuff - thanks TV Cool

So none of the pre FMIC Hot Rods that we can buy have got the thin tops?

What do you think would be a reasonable price to pay for a late 90's Hot Rod?


cheers
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:40 am

jonhope wrote:
tvthewiredturtle wrote:
ruger9 wrote:
2000 = pre-FMIC = no trestle braces, but thin tops. Note: the newer Hot Rods all have 3-ply (thinner) tops. I think they went thin when Fender took over in 2003, and have been that way ever since... again, TV can chime in here...

the '98 flatblack pinstripe was supposedly done by a painter pal Vince Ray.. (signed on the bottom right, under the devil) ray..but the guitar is the pre 2000 pre FMIC, note the extra "hole" where he dumped out the mud switch. ..or should I say tvjones rewired it for him. This is a tone post model and setzer's hotrods all have thin tops as he is quoted in his magazine specifying to Gretsch this and finding out that in stores they had botched it up with thicker tops.
This guitar also had drilled alum. saddles...gretsch didnt want to follow that
nice little twang mod by modica.
my Guit player mag 2001 october, he is shown with the flatblack striper loaded with
magnatrons at that time. no longer. supertrons make this sexy machine bump now!


Hi,

Cool stuff - thanks TV Cool

So none of the pre FMIC Hot Rods that we can buy have got the thin tops?

What do you think would be a reasonable price to pay for a late 90's Hot Rod?


cheers

I cant say none of them, only the guys at Japan's Terada factory could really
say. Smile Since Dubya and the world banksters put us all in a financial tailspin,
many guitarists are forced to sell their gear at stupid prices just to survive
so I cant say just how low you might find one for. I have purchased
gretsch guits (not electros) for as low as $750 (ssu) and no higher than $1450(RHH) but most sit right at the $1200 mark w/ a hardshell case.
The turn off to many that want the pre FMIC tone post models is that they
had non locking tuners that require the post holes reamed larger and set pin
holes in order to install Sperzel locking tuners. As well all vol and tone pot holes
have to be reamed larger to accept CTS pots and
jacks n switches need to be changed to switchcraft.
A tvjones harness takes care of much of the electronics work, plus his pkups just
drop in.

all to say..by the time you get ALLL that stuff installed, even if you do the labor yourself...you still have paid now about $1500 for that guitar and the bridge still
hasnt been swapped over to an ABR-1 (mine had nashville non wire bridges)..

Most folks just pay $1500 on ebay for a newish (usually '04 or '05) hotrod with all the goodies in place. Different build on the body's underbelly of course but if you
arent really insearch of "THAT BSO SOUND" then its not worth the labor of love.

I think its worth it though, I'm a die hard... My old boss used to say
"there's a time to do it, and a time to do it right!"

FWIW... thin tops on tone post models are really awesome for that rockabilly
travis picking thing, as well as producing beautiful bloom to walking bass lines
and melodic chord substitutions,etc... I had the 6120RHH model for a few months
and I swear that guitar felt alive because of the super thin top, the lacquer finish and the floating fretboard...

BUT..BIG BUTT..

In my experience in working on and also woning many various 6120s, a thicker top rocks waaay sweeter if you are the type to use various overdrives, distortions and fuzzes on your pedal board as well as amps with master volume for overdrive.
I can pull off rhandy rhoades "Crazy Train" easy (not as slick at all) with
my 99 SSU and Barber burn unit going to the blonde. No flying V or marshall
required.

What rocks the best are the old late 80s gretsch guitars though because they had
REALLY thick 5 ply tops, fretboards straight to the body and really zany ceramic
mag filtertrons. The billy duffy "cult" sound is alive in those baby's.
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:39 pm

tvthewiredturtle wrote:


I cant say none of them, only the guys at Japan's Terada factory could really
say. Smile Since Dubya and the world banksters put us all in a financial tailspin,
many guitarists are forced to sell their gear at stupid prices just to survive
so I cant say just how low you might find one for. I have purchased
gretsch guits (not electros) for as low as $750 (ssu) and no higher than $1450(RHH) but most sit right at the $1200 mark w/ a hardshell case.
The turn off to many that want the pre FMIC tone post models is that they
had non locking tuners that require the post holes reamed larger and set pin
holes in order to install Sperzel locking tuners. As well all vol and tone pot holes
have to be reamed larger to accept CTS pots and
jacks n switches need to be changed to switchcraft.
A tvjones harness takes care of much of the electronics work, plus his pkups just
drop in.

all to say..by the time you get ALLL that stuff installed, even if you do the labor yourself...you still have paid now about $1500 for that guitar and the bridge still
hasnt been swapped over to an ABR-1 (mine had nashville non wire bridges)..

Most folks just pay $1500 on ebay for a newish (usually '04 or '05) hotrod with all the goodies in place. Different build on the body's underbelly of course but if you
arent really insearch of "THAT BSO SOUND" then its not worth the labor of love.

I think its worth it though, I'm a die hard... My old boss used to say
"there's a time to do it, and a time to do it right!"

FWIW... thin tops on tone post models are really awesome for that rockabilly
travis picking thing, as well as producing beautiful bloom to walking bass lines
and melodic chord substitutions,etc... I had the 6120RHH model for a few months
and I swear that guitar felt alive because of the super thin top, the lacquer finish and the floating fretboard...

BUT..BIG BUTT..

In my experience in working on and also woning many various 6120s, a thicker top rocks waaay sweeter if you are the type to use various overdrives, distortions and fuzzes on your pedal board as well as amps with master volume for overdrive.
I can pull off rhandy rhoades "Crazy Train" easy (not as slick at all) with
my 99 SSU and Barber burn unit going to the blonde. No flying V or marshall
required.

What rocks the best are the old late 80s gretsch guitars though because they had
REALLY thick 5 ply tops, fretboards straight to the body and really zany ceramic
mag filtertrons. The billy duffy "cult" sound is alive in those baby's.

Thanks TV - excelllent stuff

I feeel happier now regarding the thicker tops

I agreee with you about doing it right - any investment in modding the guitar is wasted in seeing potential returns but its not if it makes the instrument into something better for you as a player.

I have allowed for the Supertrons and wiring harness etc - what I am not sure about is the cost for stripping it down, re-spraying and custom pinstriping - do you have any ball park ideas?

Thanks as always



cheers
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tvthewiredturtle

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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:28 pm

jonhope wrote:
tvthewiredturtle wrote:


I cant say none of them, only the guys at Japan's Terada factory could really
say. Smile Since Dubya and the world banksters put us all in a financial tailspin,
many guitarists are forced to sell their gear at stupid prices just to survive
so I cant say just how low you might find one for. I have purchased
gretsch guits (not electros) for as low as $750 (ssu) and no higher than $1450(RHH) but most sit right at the $1200 mark w/ a hardshell case.
The turn off to many that want the pre FMIC tone post models is that they
had non locking tuners that require the post holes reamed larger and set pin
holes in order to install Sperzel locking tuners. As well all vol and tone pot holes
have to be reamed larger to accept CTS pots and
jacks n switches need to be changed to switchcraft.
A tvjones harness takes care of much of the electronics work, plus his pkups just
drop in.

all to say..by the time you get ALLL that stuff installed, even if you do the labor yourself...you still have paid now about $1500 for that guitar and the bridge still
hasnt been swapped over to an ABR-1 (mine had nashville non wire bridges)..

Most folks just pay $1500 on ebay for a newish (usually '04 or '05) hotrod with all the goodies in place. Different build on the body's underbelly of course but if you
arent really insearch of "THAT BSO SOUND" then its not worth the labor of love.

I think its worth it though, I'm a die hard... My old boss used to say
"there's a time to do it, and a time to do it right!"

FWIW... thin tops on tone post models are really awesome for that rockabilly
travis picking thing, as well as producing beautiful bloom to walking bass lines
and melodic chord substitutions,etc... I had the 6120RHH model for a few months
and I swear that guitar felt alive because of the super thin top, the lacquer finish and the floating fretboard...

BUT..BIG BUTT..

In my experience in working on and also woning many various 6120s, a thicker top rocks waaay sweeter if you are the type to use various overdrives, distortions and fuzzes on your pedal board as well as amps with master volume for overdrive.
I can pull off rhandy rhoades "Crazy Train" easy (not as slick at all) with
my 99 SSU and Barber burn unit going to the blonde. No flying V or marshall
required.

What rocks the best are the old late 80s gretsch guitars though because they had
REALLY thick 5 ply tops, fretboards straight to the body and really zany ceramic
mag filtertrons. The billy duffy "cult" sound is alive in those baby's.

Thanks TV - excelllent stuff

I feeel happier now regarding the thicker tops

I agreee with you about doing it right - any investment in modding the guitar is wasted in seeing potential returns but its not if it makes the instrument into something better for you as a player.

I have allowed for the Supertrons and wiring harness etc - what I am not sure about is the cost for stripping it down, re-spraying and custom pinstriping - do you have any ball park ideas?

Thanks as always



cheers
To do that would mean serious hours of labor just stripping the instrument, then
more serious hrs. to then putty, sand, seal, prime and begin painting and finish coating the instrument. I think I can more than guarantee that this "stage" instrument was more than likely sanded down past the clear coat, binding masked
and shot with flat black and striped. Its debatable whether or not it was clear coated
prior to striping due to the rubbing and sweating that a guitar is pummeled with.
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PostSubject: Re: TV... might be Gretsch hunting...   Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:19 pm

tvthewiredturtle wrote:


To do that would mean serious hours of labor just stripping the instrument, then
more serious hrs. to then putty, sand, seal, prime and begin painting and finish coating the instrument. I think I can more than guarantee that this "stage" instrument was more than likely sanded down past the clear coat, binding masked
and shot with flat black and striped. Its debatable whether or not it was clear coated
prior to striping due to the rubbing and sweating that a guitar is pummeled with.

Cool - thanks for that - so I am looking at a few hundred dollars worth of labour - thats OK - I am willing to pay that to get the desired result Very Happy

cheers
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