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I'm Incinerator
Posts: 112
Join date: 2009-01-27
 |  Subject: Analog Delay pedals  Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:22 pm | |
| Just wondering what the main differences were between a Boss DM-2 and a DM-3? It seems that DM-3's don't quite come up for sale or auction as much as DM-2's and there seems to be quite a few DM-2 clones. BYOC now offers a DM-2 clone kit, so maybe there is a way to switch-er-oo some parts and get a DM-3? I don't even want to touch on DMM's, I have a DL4 that's pretty handy right now and I mostly use the DMM setting on that. the tube echo setting makes everything too bright and crunchy. |
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tvthewiredturtle
Posts: 1763
Join date: 2008-04-20
Age: 95
Location: so cal.
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:06 am | |
| | I'm Incinerator wrote: | Just wondering what the main differences were between a Boss DM-2 and a DM-3? It seems that DM-3's don't quite come up for sale or auction as much as DM-2's and there seems to be quite a few DM-2 clones. BYOC now offers a DM-2 clone kit, so maybe there is a way to switch-er-oo some parts and get a DM-3?
I don't even want to touch on DMM's, I have a DL4 that's pretty handy right now and I mostly use the DMM setting on that. the tube echo setting makes everything too bright and crunchy. |
oohh.... I like to share!!  cross post but why not!
[QUOTE=TV the Wired Turtle;88246]oh man I love delays..I'm down with the old Boss analog delays personally. I sold off my Boss DM-2 and Ibanez AD-9 because they are a tad too dark/smooth for me, almost classic 60s rock. I've got 2 boss DM-3 and the only difference is that they
do a more punchy train track "clickety clack" echo due to their slight change up in matsu****aBBD chips. the DM-2 had the MN3005 & MN3101
see below"
while the DM-3 got matsu****a's(matsusheeetahh) MN3205 and MN3201..this yielded a slightly longer delay time w/ clearer high end (some say harsh..not so for rockabilly)
whats funny is that I have a line 6 DL4 and RE-301 still and I think the
Dm-3 is a superior echo effect.. albeit I do like the tap tempo on the dl-4
and its superior Deluxe memory man setting to the reissue DLX Mem. man pedal, and I love EH Dlx memory mans (got an EH memory boy coming soon)
Those BBE and MXR pedals tell a half truth in saying they are analog, claiming a 100% analog audio path.. thats only partly true because
they use a lo resolution digi chip to comp the sound of original bucket brigade analog chips like the matsu and panasonic chips..
Doesnt mean they dont sound good but they just arent that close to the
full sound of a vintage Boss or Ibanez analog delay pedal.. but if we
are gonna be picky even about analog compact delays, neither the DM-2 or DM-3 are as warm and snarky as the DM-1 delay machine.
I've had the desk top versions of this box (the DM-100 and the DM-300)
like these in the photo below and it might be the tropical fish caps I've found in the 100
 [/QUOTE] |
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I'm Incinerator
Posts: 112
Join date: 2009-01-27
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:10 pm | |
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Brett
Posts: 465
Join date: 2008-09-05
Age: 44
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:31 pm | |
| One question: what is analog in that Boss (or Ibanez) analog delay pedals. They working with chips and this is 1-0, isnīt?  This is a serios question.... |
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Pistol Pete
Posts: 462
Join date: 2008-09-05
Age: 40
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 pm | |
| Just got my Ibanez ad80 analog delay pedal today. Square foot switch and registered trademark "r" above z in Ibanez. Just one word............SWEEEETTTT!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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tvthewiredturtle
Posts: 1763
Join date: 2008-04-20
Age: 95
Location: so cal.
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:44 pm | |
| | Brett wrote: | One question: what is analog in that Boss (or Ibanez) analog delay pedals.
They working with chips and this is 1-0, isnīt?
This is a serios question.... |
No these are not digital chips. In that boss pedal above the MN3005
and the MN3101 are the
delay BBD chip(clock and sampler), the NE570N is a compander chip (noise suppressor),
and the NEC4558 chip is the dual op-amp.
In these analog delays, the signal gets sampled and filtered at regular, discreet intervals but
DOES NOT get converted to Numeric Data (ie. 1- 0's ) for "processing".
"Inside, These are long chains of switches
and capacitors, actually, the capacitors are the capacitances occurring
at the junctions of a series of transistors. An input signal gets
clocked into first capacitor, but it's just there for a fraction of a
second - so the capacitor remembers this charge for a tiny fraction of
a second. On the next clock transition, this charge moves down the
chain to the next capacitor, and the first capacitor is charged to
whatever the input signal happens to be at that moment.
In a BBD chip, linear time is converted into a finite set of points by the sampling clock on input.
The same clock converts these points back into linear time on output."
that is the short description of whats going on |
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Brett
Posts: 465
Join date: 2008-09-05
Age: 44
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:53 pm | |
| ok, thanks...  |
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tvthewiredturtle
Posts: 1763
Join date: 2008-04-20
Age: 95
Location: so cal.
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 pm | |
| | Brett wrote: | | ok, thanks... |
I didnt answer your question? Did I get the answer wrong?   |
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Brett
Posts: 465
Join date: 2008-09-05
Age: 44
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:07 pm | |
| no, no, everything is fine, i have to admit i do not undertsand all of your post... but the important thing signal wonīt convert to 1-0 is clear. But in this case it is a sound sample, a record on a small chip. I was looking for the real difference between little analog pedals and this new digital pedals. Yesterday i tried in a shop the Boss Space Echo (the digital pedal), itīs a good one. But too expensive for Rockabilly music... |
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tvthewiredturtle
Posts: 1763
Join date: 2008-04-20
Age: 95
Location: so cal.
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:19 pm | |
| | Brett wrote: | no, no, everything is fine,
i have to admit i do not undertsand all of your post...
but the important thing signal wonīt convert to 1-0 is clear.
But in this case it is a sound sample, a record on a small chip.
I was looking for the real difference between little analog pedals and this new digital pedals.
Yesterday i tried in a shop the Boss Space Echo (the digital pedal),
itīs a good one. But too expensive for Rockabilly music... |
CArl martin Red repeat is a hybrid digi/analog box and Vince Ray sez its good stuff... Gotta remember, digital isnt bad at ALL.. its just not
"vintage" groovy.
I own a line6 DL4 and its Deluxe Memory Man setting is better than
a real DMM. I can say that cuz I sold my EH DMM vintage pedals after getting the DL4. Its my "The Edge" in a box |
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Brett
Posts: 465
Join date: 2008-09-05
Age: 44
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:26 am | |
| The red repeat is not bad indeed. It sounds very vintage. But i`m still looking for "the one" delay for me... i think i have to try the analog boss or Ibanez pedeal... btw, thx tavo, you are always helpful. |
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I'm Incinerator
Posts: 112
Join date: 2009-01-27
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:54 am | |
| what is a good price to pay for a DM-3? Since these show up few and far in between. I'd like to jump on one when one would show up, but I don't want to put the farm up for one or take it in the shorts. Also, those older Analogman AR20DL and AR20DL XL delays seem pretty cool, not sure if those are more in the DM-2 camp though. They seem to fetch a good amount on the used market. |
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tvthewiredturtle
Posts: 1763
Join date: 2008-04-20
Age: 95
Location: so cal.
| | Subject: Re: Analog Delay pedals Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:55 am | |
| | I'm Incinerator wrote: | what is a good price to pay for a DM-3? Since these show up few and far in between. I'd like to jump on one when one would show up, but I don't want to put the farm up for one or take it in the shorts.
Also, those older Analogman AR20DL and AR20DL XL delays seem pretty cool, not sure if those are more in the DM-2 camp though. They seem to fetch a good amount on the used market. |
supposedly the newer Maxon AD-9's a closest to the analog man first version. The Ibanez analog delay has always been made by maxon and all maxon delay circuits are superior products in my book.. having said that and having owned a long lineage of maxon/ibanez delay products from their inception, I give my 2 thumbs up on the DM-3.
The DM-2 gets more of a folklore urban myth, glory status so the price stays above $200. The DM-3 ends up hovering between low $200s and
mid $100s. My last purchase was a chipped up one missing the rubber
screw set stop, but I just aped it from a crummy DS-1 distortion.
One side note: all older Boss pedals used ACA power supplies unlike the new PSA regulated version. They will work fine as long as another pedal is in the chain that takes a regulated power supply. Works fine with my
Godlyke and Onespot power supplies.
Although I did change the power supply inside the pedal by removing
one resistor and jumpering the connection, so that it functions the way newer pedals do. It ended up adding a slight bit more bass clarity but it didnt need it and I almost came close to ruining the solder tracing on the PCB since they are so cheapass. |
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elvis
Posts: 57
Join date: 2008-10-17
| | Subject: delay Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:09 am | |
| Buzz campbell ( formidable guitarist) to play on the tour of strays cats with the ddelay cmatmods (diital delay which rings as analogical) it is a delay tremendous, it is necessary to keep him( in its memory elvis |
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