Lord Help me TV...

...I did it, I bought me one of them 5120s. I've been debating either a upright bass off Ebay, or a new guitar. The wife gave me the go ahead and I went with my gut. I'll admit, I have slight buyers remorse, but I can't put it down. I've been keeping my eye out for 6118s as you suggested but nothing was comming my way in what I wanted to spend. The labor day sale at GC was more than I could stand, so for $530, I took the bait, hook line and sinker. I hate those guys. The sound is not what I'm after, but I honestly really like the feel, which to me is the most important aspect. I'll tweak the set up a little, but it's mostly there...better than my old Gibson work horse.

Yep, I've already been perusing the TV jones site, and see that the classics come in a mount that should work well. Any thoughts on replacing the wiring harness? I'm looking forward to just tinkering, trying some things, and messing up a few things, and not sweating it because it's a cheap Korean made guitar.

I'll get around to that bass purchase one of these days...then maybe a cocktail drum kit...then maybe the woody kit for my car...then the white walls....then some calf implants and I'll be set.

I just got to figure out how to make this all a business write-off.

lemme know when you want to install tvjones! you'll need tuners too if youre bigsby'n.
I've converted many of those.

I'm ready to talk. I'm still trying to figure out what to do. One side of me says this is the closest I'll every get to the 6120 I really want, so go with the classics. The other side says hopefully one of these days I'll get what I want, so I'll just have made myself an inferior immitation that's good at gathering dust, so why not try some of TVJ's other pups. I'm ok with the bigsby that's on it, but the tuners are crap. A bridge might be a good idea, I like the look of the space control and the simplicity of the bar. Wireing harnesses from TVJ seem pretty striaghtforward. But I'm going to pass on one for now. I just want to do one thing at a time to see how each change affects tone to my ears. So I'm starting with some Pups. I like BSs sound with the supertrons, but TVs sound clips on his site leave something to be desired. You could hold a gun to my head and blindfolded, I couldn't teel the differance between any of those sound clips. And a Vox amp for goodness sake.

vic wrote:

I'm ready to talk. I'm still trying to figure out what to do. One side of me says this is the closest I'll every get to the 6120 I really want, so go with the classics. The other side says hopefully one of these days I'll get what I want, so I'll just have made myself an inferior immitation that's good at gathering dust, so why not try some of TVJ's other pups. I'm ok with the bigsby that's on it, but the tuners are crap. A bridge might be a good idea, I like the look of the space control and the simplicity of the bar. Wireing harnesses from TVJ seem pretty striaghtforward. But I'm going to pass on one for now. I just want to do one thing at a time to see how each change affects tone to my ears. So I'm starting with some Pups. I like BSs sound with the supertrons, but TVs sound clips on his site leave something to be desired. You could hold a gun to my head and blindfolded, I couldn't teel the differance between any of those sound clips. And a Vox amp for goodness sake.

you tell me what sound you are looking for and what exact guitar and amp you use, I'll tell you
what jones pkups are the best app. (U are right about his sound clips, I think its a bad mic)

5120 guitar. Fender Hot Rod Blues Jr amp at lower volumes in my living room. I love the sound that Setzer gets in the BSO when the trio comes out to play above all others. That Mystery Train with the tuned down Duo jet (or whatever it is) is one of the dragons I'm chasing...

But the bottom end in this is really what I'm after

vic wrote:

5120 guitar. Fender Hot Rod Blues Jr amp at lower volumes in my living room. I love the sound that Setzer gets in the BSO when the trio comes out to play above all others. That Mystery Train with the tuned down Duo jet (or whatever it is) is one of the dragons I'm chasing...

But the bottom end in this is really what I'm after

in this video he's playing a guitar tuned down a half a step or the video is slowed down. Thats one reason
why his low E and A are so "fat".. secondly he usually is playing through closed back cabs with V30s. this is key to harnessing a gretsch's dynamic lows... but
Fender combos love Celestion 12" speakers, and the stock one in your amp wont put out.
I have an Epiphone Valve Jr. that I dumped the crap eminence ladyluck speaker for a
12" celestion V30 and WOW... really opened up the sound. Being that it too uses EL84 power
I dumped the chinese pwr tube for a JJ and an electroharmonix preamp tube (ECC83)

Your amp will really wake up and make you boat loads happier with the tube and speaker swap.
You might even like your guitar tone better, infact I think I can say for sure you will.
You can have a 10K dollar guitar and a bad amp and the sound will still be bad. You can take a $100 guitar and have a really good sounding amp and guess what, its sounds good. It may not "feel" good
but the tube amps speaker and tubes make a large difference.

If you swap into your 5XXX series guitar a tv'tron powertron in the neck and a powertron in the bridge
you will get that sound. Of course you will need to drop in new tuners but that is gonna be the bees knees.
Supertrons really make a nashville sound more gibson as the output is increased but all the articulation
is now more rounded, more butter. Now in the same breath a supertron in the bridge of a trestle-brace nashville puts back the low mids bark in the bridge position.
I really like supertrons for the "rawk" and they dish out the round lows, you hear it for sure with the BSO trio.

If you like the mystery train sound from the BSO live in japan DVD, sorry that is a $6000 hand made by tvjones Spectrasonic C-melody Baritone guitar. THE MOST incredible sound I've ever heard!!

fwiw... these tvjones classics+ in p'tron mount bring out that low end "woodiness" you hear in that trio
sound..

I could go on forever

Damn. Everytime I see a video of Brian sittin' there playing solo like that, I get GAS all over again for a 6G6-B. That Marsh version looks pretty sweet...

I gotta' tell you TV... the Supersonic combo with the V30 does a pretty good job of copping the BSO thing IMHO. No, it's not a 6G6, but the V30 (be sure it's WELL broken in!) actually puts out plenty of bass, even with the open back. I broke my V30 in using the Weber "acetone on the surround" method, night & day difference. Sounds like it's been pounded for years! ALOT more bass than new. The SS requires an attenuator for home playing tho...

VIC: I also have a Blues Jr, and it's a cool little amp, but if you're ever going to drop the dough on a 6120, drop the dough on a better amp as well. If you're just dying for THAT tone, you're pretty much going to have to get yourself a 6G6-B & a 2x12 closed back with V30s. But other things will get you "close"... just depends on how close you are willing to settle for...

For now, the SS is close enough for me, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that I WILL end up with a 6G6-B & closed-back cab before it's over with. Each gear change gets you a little closer...

The hands, however, are not available for sale.

Hey TV- what are you using for echo these days?

ruger9 wrote:

Damn. Everytime I see a video of Brian sittin' there playing solo like that, I get GAS all over again for a 6G6-B. That Marsh version looks pretty sweet...

I gotta' tell you TV... the Supersonic combo with the V30 does a pretty good job of copping the BSO thing IMHO. No, it's not a 6G6, but the V30 (be sure it's WELL broken in!) actually puts out plenty of bass, even with the open back. I broke my V30 in using the Weber "acetone on the surround" method, night & day difference. Sounds like it's been pounded for years! ALOT more bass than new. The SS requires an attenuator for home playing tho...

VIC: I also have a Blues Jr, and it's a cool little amp, but if you're ever going to drop the dough on a 6120, drop the dough on a better amp as well. If you're just dying for THAT tone, you're pretty much going to have to get yourself a 6G6-B & a 2x12 closed back with V30s. But other things will get you "close"... just depends on how close you are willing to settle for...

For now, the SS is close enough for me, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that I WILL end up with a 6G6-B & closed-back cab before it's over with. Each gear change gets you a little closer...

The hands, however, are not available for sale.

Hey TV- what are you using for echo these days?

R,
My Dad was using the Supersonic with the matching blonde cab, I hate to tell you
this but we got rid of the V30s that were in it (cuz the load was 8ohms) and got new ones (8ohms each+4ohm load) and the 4ohm're made that amp have an even bigger tighter low end. Even the marshall side of the amp raged!
something to thing about.. teehehhhehe actually it was pretty easy to sell off the
16ohm spkers to get the 8ohm
ps. I use an old analog Boss DM-2 delay and still keep the DL4 for its space echo settings but really just stick with the Dm-2

I ended up getting the Classics. I suppose your suggestions of going for more of a gibson sound moved me in the other direction, in that I all ready have a gibson and want to go in another direction, and have more options.

I dug out the old soldering gun and without too much trouble, dropped the new pups in. When I first plugged it in, no sound. Very depressed. Then I figured out one of the wires on the tone pot had come loose when I tried to "strech" it to a more sensible mounting position. I wanted to have the two volumes down low in the traditional position, and the tone by the neck pick up, but Gretsch disagrees with me. Got that all figured out and now we're cookin with natural gas.

My initial impression is that the difference in tone is not as much as I expected. It's more to my liking, more twang but not tons more. I think the amp has a lot to do with it, but I also now need to dial in the set up. I used 3/16th and 5/32nd drill bits across the top of the pick ups to to adjust the hieght to the TV jones starting point recommendations. Now what?

It is sure is purty by the way. Amazing what taking off a cheap clear pick guard and some gold surrounds will do for the looks.

vic wrote:

I ended up getting the Classics. I suppose your suggestions of going for more of a gibson sound moved me in the other direction, in that I all ready have a gibson and want to go in another direction, and have more options.

I dug out the old soldering gun and without too much trouble, dropped the new pups in. When I first plugged it in, no sound. Very depressed. Then I figured out one of the wires on the tone pot had come loose when I tried to "strech" it to a more sensible mounting position. I wanted to have the two volumes down low in the traditional position, and the tone by the neck pick up, but Gretsch disagrees with me. Got that all figured out and now we're cookin with natural gas.

My initial impression is that the difference in tone is not as much as I expected. It's more to my liking, more twang but not tons more. I think the amp has a lot to do with it, but I also now need to dial in the set up. I used 3/16th and 5/32nd drill bits across the top of the pick ups to to adjust the hieght to the TV jones starting point recommendations. Now what?

It is sure is purty by the way. Amazing what taking off a cheap clear pick guard and some gold surrounds will do for the looks.

did you make sure the pots were 500K and that you have .02 caps not .05 ?

FWIW.. when I removed my original setzer alnico filtertrons from my 99 SSU and
put in the tvjones classics, I think initially felt the same way. BUT... then I started hearing how smooth yet articulate the notes were, AND how even the tone was from string to string. THEN most importantly when I used overdrive pedals there were no microphonics and absolutely no harshness on the high end.
Just clear singing notes and jangle amidst the gritch and grind!
also... did you move up to 11g strings? I know setzer uses 10g but hot dog those filtertrons start barkin with 11g and the bigsby behaves much better.
Plus you know what they say about big strings.

They were 500K but I'm not too sure about the caps, I didn't look. I was planning on a TVJ harness one of these days though. I was having a tough time getting the solder to stick to the body of the pot for the ground, what's the deal there? It's fine now, but I don't trust it.

Your right about the strings. I usually play with 11s, but I was enjoying shredding like this goof ball with the 10s, so I left em on for now.

Well, not quite shredding like that.

vic wrote:

They were 500K but I'm not too sure about the caps, I didn't look. I was planning on a TVJ harness one of these days though. I was having a tough time getting the solder to stick to the body of the pot for the ground, what's the deal there? It's fine now, but I don't trust it.

Your right about the strings. I usually play with 11s, but I was enjoying shredding like this goof ball with the 10s, so I left em on for now.

Well, not quite shredding like that.

I love shred music especially Through the Fire and Flames by Dragon force, hot
damn thats cool nintendo shred. My boys turned me onto it by mocking me that
I cant that F'n guitar hero game. (yes I am beating this to death)

when soldering you have to have a heat shrink on the wire being attached to the
pot, not an option. whether its a good hemistat or locking needlenose pliers..a must. wire must be tinned and the back of the pot has to be lightly abraded with
a metal rasp or sandpaper (dont let residue get into the pot). I prefer silver
solder on everything.

when you are done, have a beer and watch this:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

when you are done, have a beer and watch this:

REE Dork ulous. Love the split screen and the guy nursing s Schlitz.

Speaking of shredders that make me want to burn my guitar, I never heard the story of you opening for Jr. Brown. What was that dude like?

vic wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

when you are done, have a beer and watch this:

REE Dork ulous. Love the split screen and the guy nursing s Schlitz.

Speaking of shredders that make me want to burn my guitar, I never heard the story of you opening for Jr. Brown. What was that dude like?

In venues like The Key Club perhaps even more so because its on Sunset
in Hollywood, the opening band is nothing more than the fluffer.
I'm happy I've gigged there twice now but..yah.. headliners have their own
trailer out in back,etc,etc. I never even saw the guy till he hit the stage and
once we were done we were required to get our stuff out of the loading zone.

Oh well thats cool, I got to see Junior Brown for free and he has got to be
the best country swingin, chicken picken, jazzabilly,classic rock n surf guitar monster I have ever witnessed play a steel guitar. Plus I love his voice, songwriting, style..
Kind of a grumpy ol dude on stage but so what, everybody is watching him
with their jaws in their hands because he's a flying trapeze circus magician with
the guit-steel.

Now that I've had a few days to mess with it and dial it in, it sounds great. The bridge PU is the biggest up grade. No longer harsh but as you say "rawkin" in a big way. The inbetween is gretsch twangy, but the neck pu is not quite as smooth and jazzy as I was hoping. I've been fiddlin with lower tunings as well, and dropping it all to a C sounds amazingly good. So what did TVJ do different to that baritone other than drop the tuning, different string guage, fret length, to get that sound?

vic wrote:

Now that I've had a few days to mess with it and dial it in, it sounds great. The bridge PU is the biggest up grade. No longer harsh but as you say "rawkin" in a big way. The inbetween is gretsch twangy, but the neck pu is not quite as smooth and jazzy as I was hoping. I've been fiddlin with lower tunings as well, and dropping it all to a C sounds amazingly good. So what did TVJ do different to that baritone other than drop the tuning, different string guage, fret length, to get that sound?

increasing the neck a step and a half adds more wood, longer strings and greater scale
length. More like a piano response. Since the tone shifted down they put a TVjones
magnatron (alnico slugs) on the neck for more individual string focus which again is
why you hear (in the live in japan) such amazing articulation. That an I believe the
wood on the body of that particular instrument is different from the standard
Spectrasonic that uses a routed alder body with spruce top, mahogany neck and paduak fretboard. Tom Jones and Saul Koll are luthier buddies from the same neck
of the woods so when they share a booth 2 NAMM shows ago, I got to play Saul's
Koll Duo Glide that is very very similiar to the spectrasonic in feel shape and tone, but
the body was mahogany, making it in this build, very punchy.

We cant forget also that TVjones refrets all Brians guitars with dunlap jumbo stainless
steel frets (6150 wire gauge I believe) and this is another one-upsman on the dynamic
aspect of individual string tone in my opinion.

ps. "smooth and jazzy" is what you call the flatblack with supertrons or the
c melody? what was that referring to?

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

ps. "smooth and jazzy" is what you call the flatblack with supertrons or the
c melody? what was that referring to?

No I wouldn't consider either of those to have a traditional jazz sound. I just mean that my 5120 with classics is not smooth and fat in the bridge position as I was hoping. I'm used to 45 year old P90s, so this new rig has a lot more treble, but it's kinda harsh to my ear. I guess I play at pretty clean settings, and a little breakup would soften it up some. I've played with p/u height, but not found much difference. So I guess dropin the whole thing down a step or two certainly softens it all up to with out cranking up the bass and muddyin up the whole thing.

Working on it.

vic wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

ps. "smooth and jazzy" is what you call the flatblack with supertrons or the
c melody? what was that referring to?

No I wouldn't consider either of those to have a traditional jazz sound. I just mean that my 5120 with classics is not smooth and fat in the bridge position as I was hoping. I'm used to 45 year old P90s, so this new rig has a lot more treble, but it's kinda harsh to my ear. I guess I play at pretty clean settings, and a little breakup would soften it up some. I've played with p/u height, but not found much difference. So I guess dropin the whole thing down a step or two certainly softens it all up to with out cranking up the bass and muddyin up the whole thing.

Working on it.

yep, then supertrons are your bag man, they are all filtron but darker with balls.
give a listen to setzer's rockabilly trio when the BSO takes a smoke break in the
Xmas DVD. He cranks the gain up on the space echo and is using the pinstripe'r
loaded with supers. I'm not sure though if your electromatic is newer, the older ones
had mahogany necks and the tone rails were made of super cheap laminated mahogany. I remember how easy it was to pull those out without any chisel. I glued
in oak rails on that one and gave it supertrons, as the guy had a silverface bassman
and tophat 212 cab.

Say TV,

I've got a Gibson question. I know filtertrons and gretsch's seem to be your thing but you seem exceedingly tech savy when it comes to the subtlety of sound. So, a few months back, after wanting one for at least 20 years, I finally got an L-5CES. I, of course, want it to sound as much like Scotty's as possible. Finding old Alnico V's like Scotty's seem quite elusive. (http://www.scottymoore.net/alnicov.html) It currently has upgraded seymour duncan pick-ups and while playing something like "Lawdy Miss Clawdy" it already DOES have that great Scotty Moore L-5 sound, but it would be really cool to find a set of those old alnico v's and/or reasonable facsimilies.(sound wise) I know most of the older L-5's came with P-90's, but as I stated in another post with you, I have a '52 ES-295 and don't want them to sound exceedingly similar. What do you suggest, sir?

Brent

Brent wrote:

Say TV,

I've got a Gibson question. I know filtertrons and gretsch's seem to be your thing but you seem exceedingly tech savy when it comes to the subtlety of sound. So, a few months back, after wanting one for at least 20 years, I finally got an L-5CES. I, of course, want it to sound as much like Scotty's as possible. Finding old Alnico V's like Scotty's seem quite elusive. (http://www.scottymoore.net/alnicov.html) It currently has upgraded seymour duncan pick-ups and while playing something like "Lawdy Miss Clawdy" it already DOES have that great Scotty Moore L-5 sound, but it would be really cool to find a set of those old alnico v's and/or reasonable facsimilies.(sound wise) I know most of the older L-5's came with P-90's, but as I stated in another post with you, I have a '52 ES-295 and don't want them to sound exceedingly similar. What do you suggest, sir?

Brent

I was a big humbucker guy in my mesa boogie amp yrs. I owned several
LPs and SGs along with Hamer studios and PRS. As well I was modding
a ton of strats and teles with humbuckers in the 90s.
All to say my experience in Dumbuckers, uh I mean humbuckers is
with Seymour Duncan, gibson, Rio Grande, Dimarzio, Kent Armstrong and PRS.
I like the combination of the Seymour Duncan Jazz neck and the JB bridge with
coil split option for full coverage applications but in the case of your guitar, its hard
to deny the SD antiquites... Oh man those are sweet, airy and articulate.
My friend ironically is selling a pair in relic'd nickel cuz I'm putting magnatrons
in his Les Paul.
If you have the money, please look also into these lollars, the lower wind and proper magnets are something you should talk to him about for your $$$ guitar..seriously:
Lollar low wind humbuckers

You are the man. Thanks TV

Brent