- Kingsley16 wrote:
- I love my Gretsch 5120, although Im thinking of upgrading the roller bridge for a rocking bridge. I think I'm getting some vibration in my roller bridge and it is bothering me, and I can't find how to adjust it. The rocking bridge, being a solid state object looks like it might me vibration-free.
any thoughts?
thanks,
Daniel-billy
On any guitar, be it a tele, LP, strat, jazzbox,etc.. it is critical that the nut slots
are cut at the correct break angle AND to the correct string gauge AND lubed.
This unfortunately is never the case on budget minded guitars plus the material
the nut is constructed from is not to the standards of premium models (setzer
models have Delrin nuts ( stewmac.com calls it slip stone nut and
bills it as self lubricating, the material is from dupont and used as metal substitute
as well... the right stuff for a bigsby).
So right off the bat, most all of these guitars have not been taken in to a tech and properly set up. They were assembled and "set-up" to factory specs with 10g strings.
Thats it, the rest is up to Us.
rhetorical question: have you properly dressed the Nut.
Tuners. They have to AT LEAST be grover stay-tights or rotomatics, the cheaper gretsch tuners are made in china (Ping) and have the "G" brand on them, they
are only okay for hardtail or acoustic guitars IMO based on tons of guitar swaps in shop.
Then, in the case of the Bigsby... sorry to say the electromatics only
receive the bigsby LICENSED version, not the real bigsby. The machining
and cam materials are not to the tighter tolerances of the original and there
is much more slop and friction (lateral movement) from the cheaper cam.
( you can order upgrade replacement dont sweat it too much)----------------------<>
so... the bridge issue
the roller bridge is nifty concept for sure, but its really just a band-aid to cover
the real issues of tuning stability I mentioned above ESPECIALLY with a bigsby.
Vibration issues can be attenuated on them with a dab of heavy duty axle
grease...BUT you have to ask yourself if this roller nut is worth the loss of
tone and sustain? (rhetorical question #2).
Its bad enough we have floating bridge saddles on the guitar just sitting there ontop
of the guitar body ( pinning them increases string to body coupling, a good thing)
but in the case of the roller bridge, your strings are sitting on little metal
"doughnuts" that spin around a tiny pin that rests in the bridge assembly.
Think about it, this design actually is decoupling your strings from the body of
the guitar.. your losing the very thing that attaches your fingers to your amp for
a band-aid effect of bigsby tuning stability.. Sustain and tone are lost...
I am not a fan at all, and I have tried making the schaller roller bridge work, even
with the grease and silicon fix.. they suck in my opinion unless you are playing
full on distortion and your music style does not involve attempting to keep some
semblance of the "gretsch sound" inherent in many of our neo-rockabilly, psychobilly, or pop-punk genres (hell even billy joe armstong is big on guitar tone).
SO.... rhetorical question #3 should you switch to a rockin bar bridge to elimate
the rattle and loss of tone and sustain?
The benefits on the rocking bar bridge number one is that its mass and shape
give it superior sustain over all other floating bridge by default . thats one big ass
piece of solid metal and you can bet your own cheeks its coupling those strings
straight to the body, and because of its large curved smooth and open strings slots
the bigsby is gonna behave waay better.
the downsides of this bridge are its impossible lack of proper intonation and the
mass of the unit creates a slight imbalance in string volume, you get increased
bass and roll off in the high E,B,G unwound strings presence ( the bigsby brand thin aluminum rockin bar is snappy and twangy but no sustain like the fat rockin bar gretsch one).
The intonation issue is not a huge concern if you are just a rhythm player or power chord guy and dont really venture up much past the 9th fret...
On the other hand, if you love inside chords, arpeggios, double stops, faux pedal steel
bends, SOLO'ing, and playing up on the fretboard..you know all the things youre
suppose to be doing on a fretboard (damn that setzer mans fingers of fury)...
you'll be miffed at the dissonance between chord notes and off pitches moving from
lower octaves to higher...
rhetorical question #4 - Why dont you get a good ABR-1 gibson style tuneomatic wire bridge?
Even the nashville version without the wire is gonna offer the best combo in tuning stability, intonation and tone.
1. the break angle of the saddles to the Bigsby is superior by default, as long as its the correct bigsby for the body. The steeper the angle, the greater the down force and the better the sustain. If the saddle has a rounded or flatted surface your string
vibration gets dampened. Setzer has his saddles cut correctly and the slots are
filed, sanded and lubed properly. Want his tone, gotta do the details cuz we sure dont have his finger anatomy and talent!
2. individual strings are completed intonatable for standard, open, drop d, double drop, or alternate tuning (this is important to those of us that like to do a song in
drop D or with a slide, or solo up by or past the 12trh fret)
3. The TONE, THE TONE!! Rockabilly tone by Setzers fingers requires this bridge, twang factor and volume balance between all 6 strings is best served with this bridge
If you cant afford the tonepros.com AVR-II bridge (machined to tightest
tolerances.. the best..
http://www.tonepros.com/products.htm )
you can do what the rest of us do. super glue gel that wire in the holes and silicon
gel it to the body of the bridge. silicon gel the saddles to the intonation screws.
properly file and polish the saddles for the correct string gage and lube them.
I can tell you, my ABR-1 bridge doesnt rattle at all, nor does it fall off or move when I change strings..why (possible rhetorical question #5) ? because I took the time to:
a. superglue gel (slight dab L'do ya) the wire to the bridge body after properly tensioning it across the intonation screws. IT NEEDS TO BE THERE and contributes to
the sound. put superglue in the holes, shove the wire in the holes then take clear
Silicon gel and run a thin bead all the way across the wire. This thing will never move
again until you take a knife blade to it.
b. once you have intonated your guitar properly with a good tuner (open string must match fretted string at 12th fret) lay a small bead of clear Silion gel on the threads and against each saddle body. it'll look nuts until it dries, clean it up then if your anal retentive like me.
c. once you have proper string to fret to pickup height dialed in, squirt some clear silicon into.around the post holes that the bridge assemble rests on
4. pin the bridge.. I dont care if you use brass tacks (ala chet atkins) or you
use the setzer method with hidden allen screw cleats, or put a dab of silicon gel
under the wood saddle base to the body ( i do this but I have cut a waffle/ or diamond
grid into the bottom of the saddle base so that I have wood touching the body even with the silicon (3m poster tape works to, its super thin)
There you have it, my 2 page rant in one tiny little crystal!
btw.. Your local tech BETTER know how to do this stuff ! I do it for $35 p/hr bench
fee, send em over!
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Subject: roller versus rocking bridge 
Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:43 am
