The 'it's too quiet in here let's shake things up' thread!

I haven't included the Riot Squad in my list because 1) I haven't heard them and 2) I don't know how to consider them, since they don't have an album out yet. They spend most of the show split into 2 different units, merging together for closing numbers and encores. I like the idea of a drummer as versatile as Noah Levy, but I haven't heard anything on SFLA or SGIM for him to supplant Bernie on my "Setz Best" list. I'm always in favor of Setzer with piano, so that bodes well for consideration.

Setzer + Rockabilly + Piano + 1/3 (Stray Cats) + 2 basses + Noah - Bernie = Nasvillains Lite, so they ought to rank right up there.

It's simple math, really. I call it the Bernie Factor. Where x equals any collection of musicians, X + Bernie > X + Not Bernie.

Bernin' Up-a-billy

I'm weary of I wish Lee Rocker was playing.. are you kidding me? Watching the last reunion dvd it was like
witnessing a gorilla and a rhino in the same room (with a cheetah watching at a safe distance with his drum kit).
you cant bring back the past. In setzer's words about the stray cats not being able to stay together.. "IT WAS
NEVER ABOUT THE MUSIC"

If there is any issue taken with Spazz it has to be purely a sad non musician bias that he "isnt rock n roll enough" or he doesnt have enough "rockabilly pouty savoire fair"... when the reality of the situation is that he is a master musician that thinks
and plays with jazz theory like setzer.
He locks into setzer's mind bending chord substitution and hands them back
to setzer with synchronized counter point Brilliantly... THIS IS WHY SETZER LOVERS HIM, and it works. It feels good and
Spazz knows how to be part of the that orchestral freight train.

Mark winchester was good, real good.. but Mark didnt want to be part of it anymore.. nuff said about his part.
Bernie.. he didnt want to tour anymore.. nuff said.

my 3 scents

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I'm weary of I wish Lee Rocker was playing.. are you kidding me? Watching the last reunion dvd it was like
witnessing a gorilla and a rhino in the same room (with a cheetah watching at a safe distance with his drum kit).
you cant bring back the past. In setzer's words about the stray cats not being able to stay together.. "IT WAS
NEVER ABOUT THE MUSIC"

If there is any issue taken with Spazz it has to be purely a sad non musician bias that he "isnt rock n roll enough" or he doesnt have enough "rockabilly pouty savoire fair"... when the reality of the situation is that he is a master musician that thinks
and plays with jazz theory like setzer.
He locks into setzer's mind bending chord substitution and hands them back
to setzer with synchronized counter point Brilliantly... THIS IS WHY SETZER LOVERS HIM, and it works. It feels good and
Spazz knows how to be part of the that orchestral freight train.

True, the Brixton DVD reveals quite a bit of tension between Brian and Lee. They seemed much friendlier when I saw them on stage in Stockholm in 2008, 4 years after the Brixton show was filmed. Maybe they tried to keep straight faces for the FINAL tour, who knows...?

I hear ya on Spazz, without a doubt he's a really talented musician. But since I've never heard him live I can only judge from the live CDs and DVDs he appears on. And I don't like his tone. Whereas Mark's tone was really rich and "chunky", Spazz' tone - to me - sounds really thin and "un-meaty". Maybe it's the strings he uses, maybe it's the pickup, maybe it's his right hand technique. Most likely, it's a combination of the three...

gretschoholic wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I'm weary of I wish Lee Rocker was playing.. are you kidding me? Watching the last reunion dvd it was like
witnessing a gorilla and a rhino in the same room (with a cheetah watching at a safe distance with his drum kit).
you cant bring back the past. In setzer's words about the stray cats not being able to stay together.. "IT WAS
NEVER ABOUT THE MUSIC"

If there is any issue taken with Spazz it has to be purely a sad non musician bias that he "isnt rock n roll enough" or he doesnt have enough "rockabilly pouty savoire fair"... when the reality of the situation is that he is a master musician that thinks
and plays with jazz theory like setzer.
He locks into setzer's mind bending chord substitution and hands them back
to setzer with synchronized counter point Brilliantly... THIS IS WHY SETZER LOVERS HIM, and it works. It feels good and
Spazz knows how to be part of the that orchestral freight train.

True, the Brixton DVD reveals quite a bit of tension between Brian and Lee. They seemed much friendlier when I saw them on stage in Stockholm in 2008, 4 years after the Brixton show was filmed. Maybe they tried to keep straight faces for the FINAL tour, who knows...?

I hear ya on Spazz, without a doubt he's a really talented musician. But since I've never heard him live I can only judge from the live CDs and DVDs he appears on. And I don't like his tone. Whereas Mark's tone was really rich and "chunky", Spazz' tone - to me - sounds really thin and "un-meaty". Maybe it's the strings he uses, maybe it's the pickup, maybe it's his right hand technique. Most likely, it's a combination of the three...

Mark used a vintage Kay C-1 upright with all gut strings.. Spazz is currently using a new Blastcult (formerly Kingbass) upright with two pkups/ note and slap with a royer ribbon mic. If you are judging both Marks tone from the LIVE in JAPAN to Spazz's tone from the newest Montreal DVD.. I can say that is all about the live mix engineering that was recorded.
In general the LIVE IN JAPAN is a richer recording . (marks tone is awesom in that dvd)

I've witnessed the BSO at the local Casinos and universal amphitheater (gibson amph now) and at that Later Spazz's sound is massive.

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

gretschoholic wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I'm weary of I wish Lee Rocker was playing.. are you kidding me? Watching the last reunion dvd it was like
witnessing a gorilla and a rhino in the same room (with a cheetah watching at a safe distance with his drum kit).
you cant bring back the past. In setzer's words about the stray cats not being able to stay together.. "IT WAS
NEVER ABOUT THE MUSIC"

If there is any issue taken with Spazz it has to be purely a sad non musician bias that he "isnt rock n roll enough" or he doesnt have enough "rockabilly pouty savoire fair"... when the reality of the situation is that he is a master musician that thinks
and plays with jazz theory like setzer.
He locks into setzer's mind bending chord substitution and hands them back
to setzer with synchronized counter point Brilliantly... THIS IS WHY SETZER LOVERS HIM, and it works. It feels good and
Spazz knows how to be part of the that orchestral freight train.

True, the Brixton DVD reveals quite a bit of tension between Brian and Lee. They seemed much friendlier when I saw them on stage in Stockholm in 2008, 4 years after the Brixton show was filmed. Maybe they tried to keep straight faces for the FINAL tour, who knows...?

I hear ya on Spazz, without a doubt he's a really talented musician. But since I've never heard him live I can only judge from the live CDs and DVDs he appears on. And I don't like his tone. Whereas Mark's tone was really rich and "chunky", Spazz' tone - to me - sounds really thin and "un-meaty". Maybe it's the strings he uses, maybe it's the pickup, maybe it's his right hand technique. Most likely, it's a combination of the three...

Mark used a vintage Kay C-1 upright with all gut strings.. Spazz is currently using a new Blastcult (formerly Kingbass) upright with two pkups/ note and slap with a royer ribbon mic. If you are judging both Marks tone from the LIVE in JAPAN to Spazz's tone from the newest Montreal DVD.. I can say that is all about the live mix engineering that was recorded.
In general the LIVE IN JAPAN is a richer recording . (marks tone is awesom in that dvd)

I've witnessed the BSO at the local Casinos and universal amphitheater (gibson amph now) and at that Later Spazz's sound is massive.

I've compared Spazz's tone on the Christmas DVD, the Montreal DVD and various bootleg recordings to Mark's tone on the Japan DVD, the Woodstock appearance and a few other sources (as well as seeing Mark live on the 68CBS tour), and IMO while Spazz's tone is "cardboard", Mark's tone is "solid wood". Much like Kevin Smith's (High Noon, Dwight Yoakam etc) - now THERE'S a tone for ya...

I realize that live mix / studio recordings are two entirely different things, so untill I see Spazz live I'm gonna shut my mouth.

I have the same bass as Mark.. I guarantee its plywood.. just from the 50s Mark is old school

1. Stray Cats rule!
2. 68CBS rules even more!
3. Lee always seemmed "a bit cranky".(but still rules)
4. Tony Pia, probably the coolest(and maybe the only) heavy metal/rockabilly drummer---well... RULES!!

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I have the same bass as Mark.. I guarantee its plywood.. just from the 50s Mark is old school

Of course! I was just using wood and cardboard as subjective metaphors for the difference in their tones....

Mark's solo from 3:12 to 4:00




Spazz's solo from 1:26 to 2:03

I was in the audience on that video, so I probably absorbed all his tone

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I was in the audience on that video, so I probably absorbed all his tone

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I'm weary of I wish Lee Rocker was playing.. are you kidding me? Watching the last reunion dvd it was like
witnessing a gorilla and a rhino in the same room (with a cheetah watching at a safe distance with his drum kit).
you cant bring back the past. In setzer's words about the stray cats not being able to stay together.. "IT WAS
NEVER ABOUT THE MUSIC"

I thought that, given the amount of bad blood that had seemed to been generated between Brian and Lee in the period when Brian and Jim toured Japan in 2002ish, they did well to be on stage at all and, given that Lee was well established as a solo act by then, I think it took a certain amount of humility to step out of the front and centre and go back to being 'the bass player' in all the SC tours between 2003 and 2009. I'm still sad that they didn't record something more than 'Mystery Train Kept A-Rollin' in that period, precisely for the reason given in this thread, their musicianship is much stronger now than in their heyday as SC and I felt they could have recorded a killer album. I'm still hoping that, one day, Brian will lay down a version of 'Seven Nights To Rock'.

Out of curiosity, what was the story behind the Hellride gig in 2003, what brought the Cats back together?

HotRods to Helsinki Tour- gigs in Tavastia club are propably the best I've seen from BS.
Sweaty, full house rockin, brian was on fire. Met Tommy who gave me badges, even chatted with
Bernie a bit.

to me, the Nashvillains tour 2005 was possibly the best show I've seen, together with the SCats farewell in 2008.

However, the shows that will always be on my memory are the 68 CBS in Madrid (first time ever seeing Brian!) and sure this last tour in Europe, in Amsterdam, when I got to meet Brian.
Also, seeing Slim Jim in Madrid 5 years ago and having the chance of meeting him will be for sure always present with me.

I wish I had seen one of the Nashvillans shows, but didn't make it. For me Stray Cats will always be number one. I saw a lot of their early gigs in London in '80 and '81, I do not think I have seen the same energy and pleasure in Brian's playing in any of the incarnations since the early days... until the Riot Squad. Brian was on a whole different level.

Drummers: I'll always like Jim, but Bernie was someting else.

Bass: Johnny was great live. Agree with someones comment about Lee being cranky.
But things probably weren't helped on the "Rumble"? DVD, where Brian starts to introduce "my band, no, our band"?

Something my 9 year old son said to me struck a chord: remember dad, you're getting older .
But he's right, although i'd prefer to call it mature!
In 1980 if I had heard some of the stuff Brian has done in later life, i'd have probably puked. So Stray Cats were right at that stage of my life. When Brian progressed with the Orchestra, I was ready for that and the various set ups on the side were good for the diversity.

My 3 cents.

Madman wrote:

I saw a lot of their early gigs in London in '80 and '81, I do not think I have seen the same energy and pleasure in Brian's playing in any of the incarnations since the early days... until the Riot Squad.

Aagh, I wish I'd seen the 1981 Helsinki gigs but I lived 600 km up north.

'I saw a lot of their early gigs in London in '80 and '81, I do not think I have seen the same energy and pleasure in Brian's playing in any of the incarnations since the early days... until the Riot Squad.'

I totally agree re the energy/enthusiasm. I saw a lot of the Cats gigs in the very earliest days -inc pre record deal - in London and in Manchester and I also thought Brian had never looked so enthusiastic and at ease until the last rockabilly riot tour.

I had the feeling though that there was a kind of closure/farewell vibe to the whole thing - ie 'this is everything mixed together that I've done up to now - I've discharged my obligations to play it and now I'm moving on'.

Hope I'm wrong though!!

I'd love to see a SC - early days DVD compilation someday. With SC member comments etc.

Bringing Lee back to the topic, I've always felt from the very early 80s that Lee was somehow aside Jim and Brian, despite being real friends with Slim Jim... however, I cannot understand why this has been this way, nor why Brian has travelled aside from Jim and Lee (except when flights) in Europe (2008). I thinl that Lee is as talented as Brian; unfortuntelly Brian was the frontman, which means, more projection and the man to remember. It's a pity that Lee has to trail the Stray Cats name behind him when he has wonderful songs and lyrics....

Quite curious that the name Stray Cats sells a lot, but Lee Rocker, Brian Setzer or Slim Jim ... of Stray Cats dont sell that well...

I remember a Q & A with Brian on the official site back when Tommy ran it -the question of album sales was raised and the figures for the Rumble In Brixton CD where surprisingly low according to Brian - and this was before CD sales in general really died the death they're undergoing right now.

Slim Jon Phantom wrote:

I cannot understand why this has been this way... I thinl that Lee is as talented as Brian; unfortuntelly Brian was the frontman, which means, more projection and the man to remember. It's a pity that Lee has to trail the Stray Cats name behind him when he has wonderful songs and lyrics....Quite curious that the name Stray Cats sells a lot, but Lee Rocker, Brian Setzer or Slim Jim ... of Stray Cats dont sell that well...

There's an easy answer to that. Setzer was the best looking of the three, so naturally he did better overall, regardless of talent. Stray Cats sell better than all the others because they had hit records and a pretty frontman. Setzer sells next best because he had a hit record in the late 90s, and he was still a pretty frontman. As they all get older and less pretty, it's gonna be harder to sell.

I'm not saying it's right, just saying it is.

BS sang most of the tunes, played the only lead instrument (stood in the middle ) so he got most of the attention. They were all talented and together they had unbeatable chemistry & charisma between them.

Andi wrote:

Slim Jon Phantom wrote:

I cannot understand why this has been this way... I thinl that Lee is as talented as Brian; unfortuntelly Brian was the frontman, which means, more projection and the man to remember. It's a pity that Lee has to trail the Stray Cats name behind him when he has wonderful songs and lyrics....Quite curious that the name Stray Cats sells a lot, but Lee Rocker, Brian Setzer or Slim Jim ... of Stray Cats dont sell that well...

There's an easy answer to that. Setzer was the best looking of the three, so naturally he did better overall, regardless of talent. Stray Cats sell better than all the others because they had hit records and a pretty frontman. Setzer sells next best because he had a hit record in the late 90s, and he was still a pretty frontman. As they all get older and less pretty, it's gonna be harder to sell.

I'm not saying it's right, just saying it is.

Yeah, i agree.
There are so much talented people out there but that counted not much anytime.
Both are very, very good musicians and they deserves more tribute from the public, the TV & radio Stations.
But it`s no more music for the Kids.

Andi wrote:

Slim Jon Phantom wrote:

I cannot understand why this has been this way... I thinl that Lee is as talented as Brian; unfortuntelly Brian was the frontman, which means, more projection and the man to remember. It's a pity that Lee has to trail the Stray Cats name behind him when he has wonderful songs and lyrics....Quite curious that the name Stray Cats sells a lot, but Lee Rocker, Brian Setzer or Slim Jim ... of Stray Cats dont sell that well...

There's an easy answer to that. Setzer was the best looking of the three, so naturally he did better overall, regardless of talent. Stray Cats sell better than all the others because they had hit records and a pretty frontman. Setzer sells next best because he had a hit record in the late 90s, and he was still a pretty frontman. As they all get older and less pretty, it's gonna be harder to sell.

I'm not saying it's right, just saying it is.

"because he was pretty" you think Setzer did better?
wow.. are you secretly Kelly?
Setzer has done better because he is a take charge leader with an eye for style and a massive
skill of being a band leader.. a BAND LEADER! A LEADER...
.. plus he understands marketing in his niche.
Then there is the issue of rock n roll electric guitar.
take a look in the local barnes and noble newstrand at how many guitar magazine are there versus "upright bassist" magazine. The hero worship factor surrounds the electric guitar god, not the upright bass slapper.

I have no fact to base this assumption on, but I'm guessing setzer is meticulous when it comes to his music, its arrangement and its delivery. When I see this old video clip below, it makes me feel guilty of how I have always been with my bandmates especially when opportunity for PR is present and one of the badmembers makes the "band" look bad. perfectionism is a tough thing between bandmates.
In this video I see the telltale signs when setzer looks at Lee like "what in the hell are you doing?"

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x68ajz_stray-cats-be-bop-a-lula-unplugged_music

Man, what a cool and amazing video.
This young guy sounded better even with an unplugged Gretsch guitar than most RnR player i know.

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

Setzer has done better because he is a take charge leader with an eye for style and a massive
skill of being a band leader.. a BAND LEADER! A LEADER...

So you're saying Lee and Jim don't (or didn't) have the same style? That Lee hasn't capably led his band for the whole time the Lee Rocker Band has existed? Sorry, there's something else in that equation that you're overlooking. I got news, since the dawn of MTV, MOST of the acts that make hit records do so at least in part because of their looks. I agree with you about the guitar and all the magazines that attest to that fact. But all those the shelves of Teen Beat and the like tell the rest of the story.