Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

I have no problem with Neil Diamond, I like Steve and Edyie for cripes sake, but honestly can he seriously be considered RandR?
http://rockhall.com/inductees/neil-diamond/

I've always conteneded the Hall of Fame suffers from a poor name choice. Might have been better if they had more accuratly named it the "pop music of the 2nd half of the 20th century hall of fame". Or at the very least and in all seriousness "the Rock Hall of Fame". Without going to the effort of a wiki search, I smell a hippy at the dirty unwashed head of the naming commitee.

Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone Magazine heads up the Rock Hall Board of Directors - that's probably all you need to know in terms of the "dirty unwashed hippie" pedigree.

I thought it was funny when Paul Simon was inducting Neil Diamond the other night, and he pondered as he noted Neil had been eligible for many years. "What took you so long?" Then he proceeded to cite the Diamond-Streisand duet "You Don't Bring Me Flowers" as a possible reason for the delay.

For every ABBA, Neil Diamond, and Madonna they induct, they usually recognize 3 or 4 worthy others. This year, it seems like they're after less obvious choices: Tom Waits, Dr. John, Leon Russell, Darlene Love... I definitely agree with Waits and Leon Russell, but even though I'm a big Dr. John fan and I dig the Phil Spector Wall of Sound staples (Darlene Love, the Ronnettes, even the Righteous Brothers), I don't know that Darlene Love or Dr. John have distinguished themselves enough to be in the Hall. Alice Cooper and Neil Diamond were easily the choices this year who were most instantly recognizable, meeting the "Fame" criteria.

My favorite inductee of this year's class was Specialty Records founder Art Rupe. Larry Williams, Little Richard, Lloyd Price, Jimmy Liggins, Sam Cooke/The Soul Stirrers all hit their stride with Art's Specialty label. In additon to founding the label, and signing the talent, he was a very hands-on producer who helped shape some of the early sounds of Rock-n-Roll. I have a few Little Richard studio sessions where you can hear Rupe's direction from the soundbooth, and his influence is undeniable. He definitely deserves the recognition that Sam Phillips, Ahmet Ertegun, and The Chess brothers have received before him as a pioneer of early Rock-n-Roll.

Wop-Bop-a-Loo-Bop-a-Wop-Bam-Boom-a-billy

Rick, what's your opinion on the Stray Cat's eligibility?

I would love to see the Stray Cats get in, but it seems you have to have enduring success (Stones, Springsteen, Aerosmith) , lasting influence (Beatles, Elvis, Buddy Holly) , or critical acclaim (Tom Waits, Talking Heads, The Clash) to attract enough attention. I don't know that Stray Cats hit on any of those cylinders - at least, not with the dirty-hippie-laden voters of the Rock Hall. Had there been a rockabilly explosion of commercial significance in the 80s, perhaps they would merit some consideration as an influence. That there was a lot of jealousy and backbiting among the rockabilly/roots rockers in the 80s doesn't help their cause as a critical darling or cult band. Commercially, their flame didn't burn bright enough for long enough in the US. And yet, I could say the same about Darlene Love or Dr. John from this year's class, or numerous other past inductees. When disco acts and rap acts and Madonna get in, it's not hard to wonder what happened to the "Rock-n-Roll" in the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame. To Vic's point, they routinely refer to themselves as the "Rock Hall" in the various emails I get from them.

Sometimes, you have to resort to campaigning to get in. Bob Seger cited several Classic Rock Radio jocks for organizing a publicity blitz to get him in a few years back. Ritchie Valens - a pop sensation for roughly 9 months - finally got in after years of campaigning by his family. I don't know what amount of schmoozing would have to happen to put Stray Cats or even Brian Setzer on their radar. Certainly, there ought to be a significant number of people in the coming years who could tell stories of how Stray Cats and later Brian Setzer led people to the music of Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, Carl Perkins, Johnny Burnette, Bobby Darin and Louis Prima. It could take years and years before Brian or the the Cats get their token Wanda Jackson moment.

I fear the average Rock Hall voter views Stray Cats as a flash-in-the-pan 80s act to be lumped in with The Fixx, A Flock of Seagulls and Dexys Midnight Runners. Having said that, I could see them someday considering Brian Setzer, especially if he were to cozy up to the Rock Hall for a special event or two down the line. I still remember with great fondness the tribute he and Marty Stuart gave for Chet Atkins a few years back. Setzer's upcoming instrumental album should cement his status as a encyclopedic guitarchivist. (I think I just made up a word.) There are plenty of phenomenal guitarists out there - Tommy Emmanuel, Deke Dickerson to name a couple - but none of them have reached the number of people Brian has over the years. While it started with the Stray Cats, it's Brian's enduring body of work in subsequent years that deserves the attention of the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame.

Who knows what can happen these days? Evidently, social networking can overthrow regimes and help heal a nation battered by earthquakes and tsunamis. Something as small as getting Setzer in the RNR HOF should be a piece of cake.

Keep Hope Alive-a-billy

(Now I eagerly await the "Who gives a f*** about the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame?" response. I realize the HOF has zero credibility in the eyes of many. Personally, I think it's harmless. I don't lose any sleep over it, and I rather enjoy watching the induction concerts. In fact, I'm about to watch my DVR of this year's ceremony.)

Having just reviewed the resume of Darlene Love and watched her induction, I have to amend my previous position that she may have been a questionable inductee. If the Ronettes are in, then unquestionably Ms. Love should have been there right with them. Darlene Love was not only a success on her own, but was an integral part of The Crystals and sang backup on a large number of the songs to come out of the Wall of Sound. She has remained an in-demand session singer for many years, and at nearly 70 years old, she still sounds amazing.

As for Dr. John, well, he's in now, largely on the strength of championing a form of music (New Orleans piano-based rock-n-soul gumbo) that thrived years before he had a recording career. Even though he only had 2 or 3 chart hits, he has endured a career of several decades largely riffing on an art form that was current 50-plus years ago.

Sound like anyone we know?

Right Place, Wrong Time-a-billy

I too enjoy the Hall of Fame ceremonies, and jam sessions; I have been since they started televising the ceremonies back in the '90s. I think Setzer deserves to be inducted. I had mentioned the Stray Cats only because of the 25 yr since the first record criteria. Maybe we should start a campaign....

Speaking of that 25-year criteria, The Knife Feels Like Justice was released 25 years ago last month. So Brian would finally be eligible as a solo artist this coming year. It may take a number of years of campaigning - even McCartney didn't get in his first year of eligibility. But at the moment, I can't recall any artist fitting the bill better than Brian who also released their first record in 1986. Possibly Guns-n-Roses (not my opinion, just trying to predict the nominating committee's actions.) The Hall could probably fill a few years playing catch-up with previously overlooked candidates. The only artist I can think of who became eligible recently that I'm itchin' to see there would be Stevie Ray Vaughan. But there are probably quite a few 60s and 70s artists I'm missing at the moment.

The tough thing for the Hall going forward, and it really has been a problem for a number of years, is that people's access to music seemingly exploded from about the late 1980s on, giving people musical attention deficit disorder, making it tougher and tougher for an artist to have the lasting influence artists from previous decades had. Who are the heavy hitters who will grab the Rock Hall's attention in future years? Nirvana? Eminem? Those two are probably shoe-ins, but it will be interesting to see if the Hall will embrace their roots a bit more in the next few years and give Brian Setzer a look.

Can you imagine what a jam session featuring The Brian would sound like? I expect it would sound like rock-n-roll!

Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame Feels Like Justice-a-billy

2012 Nominees were announced today. Bear in mind, these are not inductees, but people eligible to be inducted. No Setzer anywhere. (This is his 1st year eligible as a solo artist)

The Cure
Guns and Roses
Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
Freddie King
Beastie Boys
War
Small Faces / Faces
The Spinners
Donovan
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Laura Nyro
Eric B and Rakim
Heart
Rufus and Chaka Khan
Donna Summer

Discuss.


Mad about saffron-a-billy

GnR?
They splitt the group in the 90ies. After that it was was band with a weird Axl...

Guns and Roses were pretty huge for the first couple of albums. Every album release up through Use Your Illusion I and II was an event. (2 separate releases simultaneously rather than a double album - and both sell crazy big numbers! Even Springsteen couldn't pull that off!)

Shoot, Ritchie Valens had a 7-month career, and he's in.

I predict the following will get in this year:

GNR
Beastie Boys
Donna Summer - The Brothers Gibb are in. She doesn't belong there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see her make the cut
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Laura Nyro - critical darling, gone too soon, just obscure enough for voters to try and prove they're too hip for the room
Freddie King - big influence - if Buddy Guy's in, then Freddie King better be there, too!

That's just what I think will happen. I feel strongly about GNR (though I'm not a fan) the Beastie Boys, and Freddie King. I hope they get in.

I just don't know about the Spinners - I don't think they're that big, but I believe the O'Jays are in, Gladys Knight and the Pips are in, so who knows?

Joan Jett has been sucking up heavily to the Hall in recent years, but I don't believe it's time for her yet.

Heart's been eligible for years. If they haven't made it by now, I wonder if they'll ever get in. There has been a big exhibit at the Rock Hall this year focusing on women in rock. So maybe it will be their year, as well as Jett's, but I doubt it.

The Cure could get in. I noticed the last couple of inductee classes have been very diverse. A Cure, Donna Summer, GNR, Beastie Boys, Freddie King, Laura Nyro class would be pretty eclectic.

Let Me Rock You Chaka Khan-a-billy

Two words...Thin Lizzy!!!!! How can this band not only not have been inducted, but to never have been nominated, it's a Rock N Roll travesty!!! Live and Dangerous, one of the best Live albums ever.

pony65k wrote:

Two words...Thin Lizzy!!!!! How can this band not only not have been inducted, but to never have been nominated, it's a Rock N Roll travesty!!! Live and Dangerous, one of the best Live albums ever.

Two more words....Deep Purple!!!!! One of the greatest Rock Bands ever, been rocking continuously since the late sixties and never been nominated either!!

Smokkkkee On The Wattteerrr

JC wrote:

pony65k wrote:

Two words...Thin Lizzy!!!!! How can this band not only not have been inducted, but to never have been nominated, it's a Rock N Roll travesty!!! Live and Dangerous, one of the best Live albums ever.

Two more words....Deep Purple!!!!! One of the greatest Rock Bands ever, been rocking continuously since the late sixties and never been nominated either!!

Smokkkkee On The Wattteerrr

YES!!!! Totally agree. These guys still rock the planet. In 2002 i had the chance to work for the DP Tour. Great experience, great Band, even with Steve Morse instead of Richi.

do you all fail to see the artistry and contribution of Wham UK?

Talking of bands that are still rocking the planet, I'm guessing the mighty Quo have never been nominated either.

Despite not being as famous in the US, Quo have been rocking the planet for the last 40 odd years and are still managing to chart, with their latest UK album going in at no. 10 on the chart.

We live in a rock'n'roll free world to a large degree these days particularly in UK. look at success of X Factor - basically Karaoke -Pop Idol, American Idol, etc etc. X Factor UK couldn't even fairly be considered to be about music at all more like generic Sat night 'entertainment'.

Bands don't even look cool anymore -nor do the fans. What happened to all the tribalism -bands that looked like gangs -fans who could be picked out on the street -rockabillies/punks/goths/skinheads etc etc. One of the joys of attending the recent Setzer Manchester gig was that flashback to the time when the audience looked as cool/hip as the band. Yes I know it's my age!!!! (I remember when...etc etc ad infinitum).

I think the whole hall of fame thing is simultaneously harmless and pointless. Who cares who's in it - is certainly no mark of r'n'r credibility (whatever that may be) in my book.

Re some earlier posts there's loads of important/worthy UK bands/artists who could all be justifiably be included -Status Quo, Dr Feelgood, Mott The Hoople, Bowie, Slade, T Rex/Marc Bolan, Roxy Music, etc etc -ditto US bands by the truckload.

Incidentally Wham UK??!! You mean you have your own Wham in the US!!!??

2012 Inductees:

Guns-n-Roses
Beastie Boys
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Small Faces / Faces
Donovan
Laura Nyro

Freddie King - Early Influence
Glyn Johns - Sideman
Cosimo Matassa - Sideman
Don Kirshner - Sideman
Tom Dowd - Sideman

It's about what I expected. I'm glad they skipped Donna Summer this year, but Donovan? They're touting him as the first British Folk artist of the 60s to hit big on both sides of the Atlantic. I guess. He was pals with George Harrison and Paul McCartney and hung out with the Maharishi, but seriously? Mellow Yellow?

Small Faces are a band I overlooked when the nominees were announced. They did have Rod Stewart and Ron Wood. I should have figured any artist who was big when the big shots at the HOF committee were first breaking into the business (mid-late 60s) would be popular. That might explain Donovan. Laura Nyro's first manager was a young David Geffen. That didn't hurt her chances.

It's hard to argue with the sidemen. Those cats were all heavy hitters in their time. I especially encourage fans of New Orleans-based rock-n-roll/r & b of the 50s and early 60s to check out Cosimo Matassa's story. He's like the Sam Phillips of New Orleans. Unlike Phillips' Sun Studios, where primarily Sun artists recorded, Matassa's J & M Studios in the French Quarter recorded for all sorts of labels, including King, Atlantic, Chess, Imperial, and Specialty. Artists such as Little Richard, Fats Domino, Lloyd Price, and Professor Longhair had some of their most important work recorded at J & M.

Don Kirshner broke into the music business writing songs with Bobby Darin. He quickly expanded into publishing, building a huge catalog from some of the Brill Building's best songwriters (Goffin-King, Weill-Mann, Pomus-Shuman, Neil Diamond), and built The Monkees and The Archies. He also had a great TV show in the US in the 70s, Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. From an behind-the-scenes perspective, his prolific career probably makes him worthy. Still... "Sugar, Sugar?"

Jughead-billy

Donovan?? huhahahahahahaha

I can't think of anything less rock and roll than the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame."

The idea of Rock-n-Roll being institutionalized definitely goes against the rebellious spirit of Rock-n-Roll. I do understand that sentiment. However, I think Rock-n-Roll is an art form whose history is every bit as worthy of preserving as Jazz or Classical music. The development of youth to have their own voice and enormous cultural and economic impact is unique to the last century. And Rock-n-Roll music (and all its related genres and subgenres) is part of that. Whether or not the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame adequately serves that end of preserving and celebrating the history of Rock-and-Roll, I can't really say. But I think it's a worthwhile effort, and better than no effort at all.

I still enjoy the performances at the induction ceremonies. I was watching a DVD of some of the performances and induction speeches last month, and Eric Clapton expressed a similar thought about disliking the very notion of such an entity. He had skipped a previous induction of the Yardbirds, but was in attendance for the induction of Cream. Here's an excerpt from the emotional induction speech, where his voice cracked more than once, as he fought back tears:

"Up until recently, I didn't believe in this institution at all. But then, not so long ago, a friend of mine, Robbie Robertson (of The Band), pointed out to me that minor and major miracles take place in here, and it deeply moved me. And I thought a lot could be gained by coming here tonight, and a lot has been gained. I've been reunited with two people I love very dearly. It's very moving".

For me, that's the appeal of the induction ceremonies. Seeing bands reunite, friendships restored, (or tensions refueled - CCR, Blondie) great music performed either in tribute, or by the inductees themselves. I remember the emotion I felt when Prince walked out in the middle of Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, and Dhani Harrison's "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and tore up the stage with his solo, and I still get a lump in my throat watching the enthusiastic response on stage from George Harrison's son, Dhani.

I realize for the really rockabillies here, that people like Charlie Feathers and Ronnie Dawson being overlooked in favor of Madonna might be hard to take. I admit the musicians they have stretched to include over the years has meant I've had to wade through a fair amount of artists I don't really care about to get to the good stuff. I wish they'd go back and revisit the artists from the first 10 years of the Hall, as those ceremonies were not nearly so widely covered, and yet, those were the most important artists in the history of Rock-n-Roll. Nowadays, the only artists from those years that seemingly get attention are the slim pickings from people long overlooked. Now that there's simulcasts, and the internet, and wall-to-wall coverage, they should re-recognize those early inductees from Rock-n-Roll's formative years like Gene-n-Eddie-n-Buddy-n-Elvis-n-Fats-n-Carl. They did sponsor an unforgettable night at the Surf Ballroom in 2009 for Buddy, Ritchie, and the Big Bopper. Recently, they put on a great evening for Aretha Franklin. So they do continue to do good work outside of their annual induction bloat.

And then there's the DVDs. The HOF has recently released DVDs and performances available for digital download of highlights from the first 25 years of the Rock Hall. The DVDs feature snippets from the induction ceremonies and select songs from the performances. I wish complete induction speeches and entire sets from the performances were available, but I am grateful to see clips from those early ceremonies, from people like Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Chuck Berry.

I may not be a fan of all the acts in this year's class, but I will likely be watching anyway. And I hope to visit the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame Museum in Cleveland someday.

Of course, the best way to celebrate this music is shut up and listen! How many great songs could I have listened to while typing this manifesto? Too many!

Gotta Be Rock-n-Roll Music-a-billy

after visiting there 3 times... I still come away Wowed! I see and learn different things every time. Most of all is how the world chews up and spits out entertainment of any kind music, sports, movies etc...If a sports team wins a championship shouldn't they get to take five years off before they have to prove themselves again? Or,hey you guys sold 10 million downloads, here's 5 million bucks come back and see us in 5 years.

I'm just sayin go and enjoy it! Plenty of old record stores to shop and good food to eat.

See ya there, Kbilly

Quote :

For me, that's the appeal of the induction ceremonies. Seeing bands reunite, friendships restored, (or tensions refueled - CCR, Blondie) great music performed either in tribute, or by the inductees themselves. I remember the emotion I felt when Prince walked out in the middle of Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, and Dhani Harrison's "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and tore up the stage with his solo, and I still get a lump in my throat watching the enthusiastic response on stage from George Harrison's son, Dhani.

Ok, I will give you that one.

I am all for preserving rock and roll in an archival sense, and housing memorabilia. I have a problem with the subjective voting from Jan Wenner's monopolistic board, adding dance and rap to the hall, and the fact it is in CLEVELAND!