how to make the setzer sound with 2 pedals magically mwhahah!!

take your favorite guitar,


insert it in here:

then insert it here:


voila!! instant digital modeling of the Setzer, go get em!

Wow, what an interesting guitar. What is it?

pony65k wrote:

Wow, what an interesting guitar. What is it?

the B.C. RICH BITCH exotic class

another look:
http://amcbuyonline.com/020608/P1010013.jpg

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

take your favorite guitar,


insert it in here:

then insert it here:


voila!! instant digital modeling of the Setzer, go get em!

Hi TV,

I have the "Blonde" pedal which I use for direct recording - it is a very cool pedal

I use it in conjunction with an RE-20 (which I know from reading your other posts on the subject of delay pedals you aren't a fan of) - do you think the Bost DLA is a better alternative to the RE-20 (and is this becoause of its boost facility?) or would the Skreddy Echo you mentioned in another post be more suitable?

As a confirmed gear head I am always looking at getting more gear to better aproximate the Setzer sound - for gigs I have the 6G6-B Bassman and a couple of Gretsches with the RE-20.

I also do some duo gigs in smaller venues where I go straight into the PA with the Tech 21 Blonde and RE-20 combination.

Unfortunately I can't stretch to a Tube Tape Echo (and Fulltones EP-2 seems to be taking forver to be released) so your advice on the best compact (and reasonably affordable) maintenance free alternative would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

jonhope wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

take your favorite guitar,


insert it in here:

then insert it here:


voila!! instant digital modeling of the Setzer, go get em!

Hi TV,

I have the "Blonde" pedal which I use for direct recording - it is a very cool pedal

I use it in conjunction with an RE-20 (which I know from reading your other posts on the subject of delay pedals you aren't a fan of) - do you think the Bost DLA is a better alternative to the RE-20 (and is this becoause of its boost facility?) or would the Skreddy Echo you mentioned in another post be more suitable?

As a confirmed gear head I am always looking at getting more gear to better aproximate the Setzer sound - for gigs I have the 6G6-B Bassman and a couple of Gretsches with the RE-20.

I also do some duo gigs in smaller venues where I go straight into the PA with the Tech 21 Blonde and RE-20 combination.

Unfortunately I can't stretch to a Tube Tape Echo (and Fulltones EP-2 seems to be taking forver to be released) so your advice on the best compact (and reasonably affordable) maintenance free alternative would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I hope it doesnt seem I poop on the RE-20, as its a really sweet pedal for
getting that re-201 sound (radiohead)..just not the RE-301 sound/tone(setzer)
as far as the boost side of it goes. It has lots of boost but it act more like
a hairy bear boost instead of a sh$t kickin cowboy boot boost.

Since you already have the RE-20, I dont think you'd be better off going to
another digital delay that acts like an analog delay, do you? Especially since
its very stripped down and box stock. If you are in the market for wanting
a setzer sound and you need a delay, THEN i'd say check out the boost DLA.
Or... if you are nut job pedal freak, why not have 3 delays! I have a boss DM-3, a
DL4 and an old EHX dlx. memory man! (not for long)

Whats interesting with most pedals that have tried to emulate a real tape echo,
is that whether they are analog (say the electro harmonix dlx. memory man)
or digital (the RE-20, the DLA) is that the modulation incorporated in the unit doesnt really "do" that tape thing correctly. The pedal uses LFO and a real deal
Tape delay is an altogether different vibe.
The mechanism of pinch rollers on a tape delay are always slightly messed up with their "wow and flutter" they create. While that was totally undesirable from
analog audio tape players and recorders.. that just aint so when it comes to cool ass rockabilly echo, and in particular BRIAN SETZERS tape echo sound ( be it the
echoplex he records with mostly or the Re-301 or fulltone TTE). that off timing kilter of his tape warble is bitchen, sic, phat, whatever you want to call it... Its the sound. Even simple clean stuff ( listen to "o holy night" on boogie woogie xmas..boost 1Khz to 8Khz about 6db's on your EQ to put the guitar up front as its heavily compressed in the mix... you will have to cut a few db's around 440 to 500hz to chill out the backup vocals bump)

dont laugh but the line 6 DL4 lets you control that off timey warble and how much
you want it in the mix of the effect. lately I've been playing with my
boss analogue delay on plus the echoplex setting of the DL4 barely on. It really gets close to the tape sounds I use to get from my RE-301. The difference is that
my pedals are silent, and sit nice and compact on the floor and never fail me.
The space echo was a pain in the ASS all the time... I dont have a guitar tech.

Enjoy your pedals man! keep saving for that new fulltone box! or maybe a skreddy for fun.

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I hope it doesnt seem I poop on the RE-20, as its a really sweet pedal for
getting that re-201 sound (radiohead)..just not the RE-301 sound/tone(setzer)
as far as the boost side of it goes. It has lots of boost but it act more like
a hairy bear boost instead of a sh$t kickin cowboy boot boost.

Since you already have the RE-20, I dont think you'd be better off going to
another digital delay that acts like an analog delay, do you? Especially since
its very stripped down and box stock. If you are in the market for wanting
a setzer sound and you need a delay, THEN i'd say check out the boost DLA.
Or... if you are nut job pedal freak, why not have 3 delays! I have a boss DM-3, a
DL4 and an old EHX dlx. memory man! (not for long)

Whats interesting with most pedals that have tried to emulate a real tape echo,
is that whether they are analog (say the electro harmonix dlx. memory man)
or digital (the RE-20, the DLA) is that the modulation incorporated in the unit doesnt really "do" that tape thing correctly. The pedal uses LFO and a real deal
Tape delay is an altogether different vibe.
The mechanism of pinch rollers on a tape delay are always slightly messed up with their "wow and flutter" they create. While that was totally undesirable from
analog audio tape players and recorders.. that just aint so when it comes to cool ass rockabilly echo, and in particular BRIAN SETZERS tape echo sound ( be it the
echoplex he records with mostly or the Re-301 or fulltone TTE). that off timing kilter of his tape warble is bitchen, sic, phat, whatever you want to call it... Its the sound. Even simple clean stuff ( listen to "o holy night" on boogie woogie xmas..boost 1Khz to 8Khz about 6db's on your EQ to put the guitar up front as its heavily compressed in the mix... you will have to cut a few db's around 440 to 500hz to chill out the backup vocals bump)

dont laugh but the line 6 DL4 lets you control that off timey warble and how much
you want it in the mix of the effect. lately I've been playing with my
boss analogue delay on plus the echoplex setting of the DL4 barely on. It really gets close to the tape sounds I use to get from my RE-301. The difference is that
my pedals are silent, and sit nice and compact on the floor and never fail me.
The space echo was a pain in the ASS all the time... I dont have a guitar tech.

Enjoy your pedals man! keep saving for that new fulltone box! or maybe a skreddy for fun.

Hi TV

Thanks for your reply

I do agree that the RE-20 is an excellent pedal in its own right - but as another confirmed Setzer nut I got it thinking it would get me "his sound" - what a misguided fool I was . I have ended up with something that whilst sounding good doesnt nail "that" sound - it also has the increasingly annoying drawback of colouring the tone (as you well know)

So, I have decided that I do need a change - the problem is there are so many options out there for delay pedals - with loads of them claiming to replicate the vintage tape echo sound.

I suppose I am really looking for some advice to guide me through this range of options:

I have a budget of up to $500

Options would appear to include:

- Tech 21 Boost DLA
- T-Rex Reptile
- SIB Mr Echo Plus (although I can't find anywhere that actually has these for sale at the moment)
- Skreddy Echo
- Maxon AD-9 Pro
- Hughes and Kettner Replex
- Carl Martin Delayla
- Damage Control Timeline

plus stuff from manufacturers including

Mad Professor
Empress
MXR
Eventide
Sub Decay
Diamond
Pigtronix
Retrosonic
Moog
Homebrew
E-H
Guyatone etc

What I am after is something that gets as close to the Setzer sound as is possible in a compact pedal - if its more versatile then thats cool but the Setzer thing is the main focus.

Any advice or further guidance you can give me would be greatfully recieved

Cheers

Jonathan

Don't rule out ANY delay until you've hit it with a clean boost. Regarding the whole "Setzer 301 preamp" idea, I started hitting my echos (Dan-Echo, AD-999, and Echo Park) with a bit of a clean boost, and I gotta' tell you... that helps ALOT.

It's not the same as turning the amp up... because you arehitting the preamp tubes with a louder ECHOed signal, that's the key. Whether the bosst is onboard your echo (like several you mentioned above), OR it's just a clean boost in front of your echo (I'm L-O-V-I-N-G my Dan-Echo these days when I hit it with my clean boost), as long as you boost into the delay, you're rocking.

I've never owned a 301, and I don't know how important the modulation is one way or the other... all the modulations I've tried (onboard delays) are either a chorus or a vibrato, and that's not what a tape echo does, I don't think. The Echo Park has a "wow & flutter" simulation, but I have no idea if it's anything like real tape, and when you're just doing 1 quick slapback (repeat) anyway, not sure how much, if at all, that modulation matters anyway.

Seriously- find a nice, warm delay you like (I like all 3 of mine, and believe it or not, the Dan-Echo sounds really good, the bad buffer issues don't really matter since it's on ALL the time), then HIT IT WITH A CLEAN BOOST...just a bit. You may be surprised!

jonhope wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

I hope it doesnt seem I poop on the RE-20, as its a really sweet pedal for
getting that re-201 sound (radiohead)..just not the RE-301 sound/tone(setzer)
as far as the boost side of it goes. It has lots of boost but it act more like
a hairy bear boost instead of a sh$t kickin cowboy boot boost.

Since you already have the RE-20, I dont think you'd be better off going to
another digital delay that acts like an analog delay, do you? Especially since
its very stripped down and box stock. If you are in the market for wanting
a setzer sound and you need a delay, THEN i'd say check out the boost DLA.
Or... if you are nut job pedal freak, why not have 3 delays! I have a boss DM-3, a
DL4 and an old EHX dlx. memory man! (not for long)

Whats interesting with most pedals that have tried to emulate a real tape echo,
is that whether they are analog (say the electro harmonix dlx. memory man)
or digital (the RE-20, the DLA) is that the modulation incorporated in the unit doesnt really "do" that tape thing correctly. The pedal uses LFO and a real deal
Tape delay is an altogether different vibe.
The mechanism of pinch rollers on a tape delay are always slightly messed up with their "wow and flutter" they create. While that was totally undesirable from
analog audio tape players and recorders.. that just aint so when it comes to cool ass rockabilly echo, and in particular BRIAN SETZERS tape echo sound ( be it the
echoplex he records with mostly or the Re-301 or fulltone TTE). that off timing kilter of his tape warble is bitchen, sic, phat, whatever you want to call it... Its the sound. Even simple clean stuff ( listen to "o holy night" on boogie woogie xmas..boost 1Khz to 8Khz about 6db's on your EQ to put the guitar up front as its heavily compressed in the mix... you will have to cut a few db's around 440 to 500hz to chill out the backup vocals bump)

dont laugh but the line 6 DL4 lets you control that off timey warble and how much
you want it in the mix of the effect. lately I've been playing with my
boss analogue delay on plus the echoplex setting of the DL4 barely on. It really gets close to the tape sounds I use to get from my RE-301. The difference is that
my pedals are silent, and sit nice and compact on the floor and never fail me.
The space echo was a pain in the ASS all the time... I dont have a guitar tech.

Enjoy your pedals man! keep saving for that new fulltone box! or maybe a skreddy for fun.

Hi TV

Thanks for your reply

I do agree that the RE-20 is an excellent pedal in its own right - but as another confirmed Setzer nut I got it thinking it would get me "his sound" - what a misguided fool I was . I have ended up with something that whilst sounding good doesnt nail "that" sound - it also has the increasingly annoying drawback of colouring the tone (as you well know)

So, I have decided that I do need a change - the problem is there are so many options out there for delay pedals - with loads of them claiming to replicate the vintage tape echo sound.

I suppose I am really looking for some advice to guide me through this range of options:

I have a budget of up to $500

Options would appear to include:

- Tech 21 Boost DLA
- T-Rex Reptile
- SIB Mr Echo Plus (although I can't find anywhere that actually has these for sale at the moment)
- Skreddy Echo
- Maxon AD-9 Pro
- Hughes and Kettner Replex
- Carl Martin Delayla
- Damage Control Timeline

plus stuff from manufacturers including

Mad Professor
Empress
MXR
Eventide
Sub Decay
Diamond
Pigtronix
Retrosonic
Moog
Homebrew
E-H
Guyatone etc

What I am after is something that gets as close to the Setzer sound as is possible in a compact pedal - if its more versatile then thats cool but the Setzer thing is the main focus.

Any advice or further guidance you can give me would be greatfully recieved

Cheers

Jonathan

you listed many versatile machines but.... have you had a chance to read some of the fluff I posted about the way the RE-301 is a guitar preamp and delay/echo unit
working together. Is that tech 21 squashing your lows and clipping both lows and
highs?

also.. repeating myself again...most of these pedals are variations of the Electro-Harmonix deluxe
memory man that is attempting to be a pedal version of a tape echo.
Ironically it has become its own legendary sound that we enjoy from the
tonesmiths like Eric Johnson, the Edge, Dave Gilmour,etc.. That pedal in itself
is really limited but it creates a timed chorus-ee modulation on each slap back
making for beautiful chimey landscapes..BUT it fails as a good echoplex or
re-301 big time. So... then all these other guys are offering great additions to
this classic pedal and they stray farther from what an echoplex or 301 ever really
offered.

All to say, unless the pedal being digital has been modeled to replicate what we
are after..there are few in the list above even in the neighborhood.

remember setzer's early stray cat sound was just a bucket bridgade analog delay
pedal, no preamp and no tape.

If BSO setzer is the sound then your preamp is more important.

hello

Nobody knows it realité, which pedale of delay brian to setzer to play with stray cats (he(it) n has there not of true photo or we can indeed see)
Some people say, few etre an ibanez or boss or maxon ect brian to setzer says a mxr two buttons? What is this modele?

elvis

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

you listed many versatile machines but.... have you had a chance to read some of the fluff I posted about the way the RE-301 is a guitar preamp and delay/echo unit
working together. Is that tech 21 squashing your lows and clipping both lows and
highs?

also.. repeating myself again...most of these pedals are variations of the Electro-Harmonix deluxe
memory man that is attempting to be a pedal version of a tape echo.
Ironically it has become its own legendary sound that we enjoy from the
tonesmiths like Eric Johnson, the Edge, Dave Gilmour,etc.. That pedal in itself
is really limited but it creates a timed chorus-ee modulation on each slap back
making for beautiful chimey landscapes..BUT it fails as a good echoplex or
re-301 big time. So... then all these other guys are offering great additions to
this classic pedal and they stray farther from what an echoplex or 301 ever really
offered.

All to say, unless the pedal being digital has been modeled to replicate what we
are after..there are few in the list above even in the neighborhood.

remember setzer's early stray cat sound was just a bucket bridgade analog delay
pedal, no preamp and no tape.

If BSO setzer is the sound then your preamp is more important.

Hi TV,

Thanks for the reply and my apologies for not being clear in the sound I am chasing - it is the late BSO era (Vavoom) and especially the 68CBS Ignition sound


So yes the preamp section is important (either built in or as you have said elsewhere using a suitable boost pedal in front of a delay to mimic the RE-301's preamp)

I have really struggled to find out enough detailed info on a lot of the pedals listed to know whether they have a suitable pre-amp built in or not.

As you have said the T-Rex and SIB ones do seem to have what we need - the Pigtronix also has a input level (drive) control as does the Moog. I know you have mentoned the Skreddy as possibly? having a suitable pre-amp but there doesnt seem to be any external controls to vary the drive level (perhaps it can be adjusted by an internal trim pot??).

All the other pedals? I havnt a clue whether they have the abilty to vary the input level - if not then we are down to a much shorter list (which is a good thing )

The Skreddy does look very cool and would appear to be spot on if it has the suitable preamp buit in - do you know whather they have now included this feature in the pedal?

If not then are we just the T-Rex and SIB pedals (or the more expensive Pigtronix or Moog ones) or is there any other pedal I have missed so far?

I have looked everywhere for someone that has the SIB in stock but it seems that its not available to buy anywhere?

Thanks for your advice to date and any further guidance would be gratefully recieved

jonhope wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

you listed many versatile machines but.... have you had a chance to read some of the fluff I posted about the way the RE-301 is a guitar preamp and delay/echo unit
working together. Is that tech 21 squashing your lows and clipping both lows and
highs?

also.. repeating myself again...most of these pedals are variations of the Electro-Harmonix deluxe
memory man that is attempting to be a pedal version of a tape echo.
Ironically it has become its own legendary sound that we enjoy from the
tonesmiths like Eric Johnson, the Edge, Dave Gilmour,etc.. That pedal in itself
is really limited but it creates a timed chorus-ee modulation on each slap back
making for beautiful chimey landscapes..BUT it fails as a good echoplex or
re-301 big time. So... then all these other guys are offering great additions to
this classic pedal and they stray farther from what an echoplex or 301 ever really
offered.

All to say, unless the pedal being digital has been modeled to replicate what we
are after..there are few in the list above even in the neighborhood.

remember setzer's early stray cat sound was just a bucket bridgade analog delay
pedal, no preamp and no tape.

If BSO setzer is the sound then your preamp is more important.

Hi TV,

Thanks for the reply and my apologies for not being clear in the sound I am chasing - it is the late BSO era (Vavoom) and especially the 68CBS Ignition sound


So yes the preamp section is important (either built in or as you have said elsewhere using a suitable boost pedal in front of a delay to mimic the RE-301's preamp)

I have really struggled to find out enough detailed info on a lot of the pedals listed to know whether they have a suitable pre-amp built in or not.

As you have said the T-Rex and SIB ones do seem to have what we need - the Pigtronix also has a input level (drive) control as does the Moog. I know you have mentoned the Skreddy as possibly? having a suitable pre-amp but there doesnt seem to be any external controls to vary the drive level (perhaps it can be adjusted by an internal trim pot??).

All the other pedals? I havnt a clue whether they have the abilty to vary the input level - if not then we are down to a much shorter list (which is a good thing )

The Skreddy does look very cool and would appear to be spot on if it has the suitable preamp buit in - do you know whather they have now included this feature in the pedal?

If not then are we just the T-Rex and SIB pedals (or the more expensive Pigtronix or Moog ones) or is there any other pedal I have missed so far?

I have looked everywhere for someone that has the SIB in stock but it seems that its not available to buy anywhere?

Thanks for your advice to date and any further guidance would be gratefully recieved

I may be using really sloppy laymans terms for this but guitar effects pedals
by nature do not have "preamps" or anything remotely related circuit wise to
the full blown preamp/ mic pre that you see on a Roland RE-301/501
space echo.



pedals do have varying values of an input gain stage to carry the signal through
the circuit or condition the input signal for the circuit of the effect.
Newer "booteek" pedals tend to use "optimimized for guitar" 1meg ohm input
levels and certain delay pedals attempting to help the guitarist/keyboardist
have tape delay effects will have a variable resistance input load circuit (again
lame mans terms) that allows the impedance levels to be adjusted for line level instruments, rack effects, guitars,etc.
They arent really there for a fat gain guitar boost by design.

so once again, there are specifics to the type of boost that are relational to both the specific guitar and specific amp.
I always use the brian may of Queen reference because its natural for a guitarist that doesnt understand "Dallas Arbiiter treble boost", to go "oh hell
no I dont need ANY more treble from my guitar"... They are missing whats
going on as that boost targets specific frequency in an already turned up
Vox AC30 non topboost Class A amp. Jimmy Hendrix used the Fuzz Face, not
to be "fuzzy" but as a boost into an already loud and clipping marshall amp because those AC128 germanium transistors had a feel and sonic characteristic
that just "jived" with the circuit of that amp.

so...beating a dead horse with a dead horse... I really want to help all you
BSO setzer sound freaks ( tell me that aint the baddest ass sound on the
planet from a gretsch) find "THAT" sound without having to have that big
stupid, noisy, clunky, always needing service, had to find, stupid expensive
RE-301.
I really wish I had the financial backing to finally put a stompbox on the market
that did this. I would if I could and am frustrated to hell that there is nothing
like this. Even pedal designers like Marc of Skreddy pedals just doesnt respond
to our BSO tone'd nonsense... What for, they dont give a sh$t about setzer and even a great deal of folks at another forum I belong to, who dearly love gretsches do NOT give much merit to Brian setzets finger prowess and songwriting.singing skills LET ALONE his tone and specific gear.

........sheeze now I am sitting here in a big geek'd out piss fit.
If I could have at least a bunch of Tim pedals and boss DM-2/Dm-3s
to sell y'all I would. I've found nothing else closer than the preamp schematic
from roland for the re-301 and my ideas, 'cept what I just mentioned.

I need to find a venture capitalist (ha in this economy) with about $10K to
develope and manufacture a 500 unit run of my "dirty boogie box" .


that was a tangent..WOW..dude yes the delay does matter and in this world right now the fulltone TTE is the bomb when it comes to retro tape echos.
In a pedal... thats a huge grey area but if a bucket brigade stompbox with
300ms of delay time tops is what works with a nice chewy warm and dark slapback, do it.. Maxon AD-9, Ibanez AD-9 on the cheap..skreddy on the high
side is really on the right track minus of course anything that has to do with
sweet preamp.

"Dirty Boogie Box"... I'll take 2 please.

Seriously... you've compared the schematics of the 301 (preamp) & TIM? And the Tim is electronically the best match these days?

oh man, I did not wish to imply that these circuits have
anything at all to do with one another. One is basically a modified studio
Mic Pre in a "rack" and the other is a pedal based loosely on a TS808 circuit
gain wise but NOT at all like it's EQ circuit.

( tech stuff regarding tim in a nutshell: For instance, a TIM pedal into a bassman, symmetrical clipping (as opposed to assymetrical ), tons of headroom, huge amount of line level (35-40db?) The Tims full sized pots and design, the drive can be add so gradually as to find the perfect setting. The TIM's has an unsoldered IC socket, so you can experiment with most IC's except for say a LM308 (rat pedal) which has a different number of pins. The TIM has an F/X loop with the idea of using an EQ you needed more tonal options. Last, the TIM has a bass shelf EQ, with a reverse engineer pots which basically allows you all the original fullness,bass of you would have from your amp in bypass. The bass control is pre distortion. Most pedals roll off the low end
before you distort the signal to keep things tight and clear. A lot of low
end distortion can get real muddy real quick. But what that means is you
don't have the low end there when you need it for cleaner settings. The
bass control will allow you to keep all the low end for the cleaner sounds,
and dial it out for the good crunchy stuff.
The treble control is post distortion. Like the bass circuit most pedals
will have a preset hi end roll off to keep the pedal from being fizzy and
noisy when distorting, but you'll lose the hi frequencies for the cleaner
settings. So for cleaner settings you might have the treble on zero (7
o'clock) for all the highs, and as you turn up the distortion you would roll
back the treble to keep things smooth.
Being able to control the pre and post EQ gives you the ability to kill the
evil mid bump a lot of pedals have preset into them. )

I would only imply that the TIM behaves very much sonically and dynamically
like what we hear when we listen to Setzer's re-301 into 6G6-b BSO tone.

It was a weird fluke for me to match the TIM up against my first
RE-301 bassman and gretsch... for me at least it just made sense.

I think I went into detail about both of these in some post a few months
ago, I'll have to find it. I repeat myself too much... gettin' old!

I remember us talking in that thread... I mentioned I had a Barber LTD-SR, which is his "flat EQ" version of the LTD. Symmeterical clipping. Very gradual gain. 1 tone knob on top... middle is "flat", one way adds bass/subtracts treble, and vica-versa. Inside 3 trim pots: bass, mids, presence. I don't know if the bass is pre-gain or not, but the pedal never gets farty or woofy.

At the time, you didn't think the Barber would do the trick, and I would agree if we were talking about a Direct Drive, or original LTD, or Small Fry, but the LTD-SR ("Special Recipe") is indeed "special". Most transparent (yet still adjustable) drive pedal I've owned (and I've been thru dozens). I've seen the excellent TIM videos on YT, and the LTD-SR is very much in the same camp.

That being said, since I don't have my 6G6-B yet, it doesn't really apply... yet. But it WILL... just as soon as I find the 6G6-B. (BTW, decided NOT to trade for that '63 I told you about, just not a good value for me, with the wrecked cab & mods, so I'm back to either a Marsh or finding a cleaner '63... but I'm ON THE HUNT!)

ruger9 wrote:

I remember us talking in that thread... I mentioned I had a Barber LTD-SR, which is his "flat EQ" version of the LTD. Symmeterical clipping. Very gradual gain. 1 tone knob on top... middle is "flat", one way adds bass/subtracts treble, and vica-versa. Inside 3 trim pots: bass, mids, presence. I don't know if the bass is pre-gain or not, but the pedal never gets farty or woofy.

At the time, you didn't think the Barber would do the trick, and I would agree if we were talking about a Direct Drive, or original LTD, or Small Fry, but the LTD-SR ("Special Recipe") is indeed "special". Most transparent (yet still adjustable) drive pedal I've owned (and I've been thru dozens). I've seen the excellent TIM videos on YT, and the LTD-SR is very much in the same camp.

That being said, since I don't have my 6G6-B yet, it doesn't really apply... yet. But it WILL... just as soon as I find the 6G6-B. (BTW, decided NOT to trade for that '63 I told you about, just not a good value for me, with the wrecked cab & mods, so I'm back to either a Marsh or finding a cleaner '63... but I'm ON THE HUNT!)

youre right we did, and I still think Barber is tops. I'll never sell my burn unit
but I would say give Dave a call and ask him whats involved with moving the
bass to pre gain. It makes a WORLD of difference. As much as I am a connect the dots kind of pedal/amp fix it guy I havent yet tried to mess with that
part of a TS808 circuit..wish I knew how to do it. I can certainly take any
Ibanez TS-9 or Maxon OD-9 and open up the bass and presence by changing
the output resistors and turning all the crap components into hi fi ones, but
it still is a way different machine than the TIM and personally when I play my
strat I dont want to play through the TIM. I choose my Barber burn unit or at
the moment my Maxon OD-9.
I wonder how many guys know they can have a decent boost for their guitars just by taking a tubescreamer, turning the gain to almost off with the volume
and tone all the way up? a little bit of attenuation tweak after that to the
gain (up) and tone (down) gives a great goose to your analog delay and to the tubes of the amp. Its at the least a psuedo rev horton heat tone.

If you talk to dave you might get him to spill the beans on what he is presently
concocting with Paul Cochrane. I think Barber might become a TIM manufacturer so its not so hard to get one.
You should also share your LTD experience here more with the amps you use, so
others can be preached the religion of Barber!

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

oh man, I did not wish to imply that these circuits have
anything at all to do with one another. One is basically a modified studio
Mic Pre in a "rack" and the other is a pedal based loosely on a TS808 circuit
gain wise but NOT at all like it's EQ circuit.

( tech stuff regarding tim in a nutshell: For instance, a TIM pedal into a bassman, symmetrical clipping (as opposed to assymetrical ), tons of headroom, huge amount of line level (35-40db?) The Tims full sized pots and design, the drive can be add so gradually as to find the perfect setting. The TIM's has an unsoldered IC socket, so you can experiment with most IC's except for say a LM308 (rat pedal) which has a different number of pins. The TIM has an F/X loop with the idea of using an EQ you needed more tonal options. Last, the TIM has a bass shelf EQ, with a reverse engineer pots which basically allows you all the original fullness,bass of you would have from your amp in bypass. The bass control is pre distortion. Most pedals roll off the low end
before you distort the signal to keep things tight and clear. A lot of low
end distortion can get real muddy real quick. But what that means is you
don't have the low end there when you need it for cleaner settings. The
bass control will allow you to keep all the low end for the cleaner sounds,
and dial it out for the good crunchy stuff.
The treble control is post distortion. Like the bass circuit most pedals
will have a preset hi end roll off to keep the pedal from being fizzy and
noisy when distorting, but you'll lose the hi frequencies for the cleaner
settings. So for cleaner settings you might have the treble on zero (7
o'clock) for all the highs, and as you turn up the distortion you would roll
back the treble to keep things smooth.
Being able to control the pre and post EQ gives you the ability to kill the
evil mid bump a lot of pedals have preset into them. )

I would only imply that the TIM behaves very much sonically and dynamically
like what we hear when we listen to Setzer's re-301 into 6G6-b BSO tone.

It was a weird fluke for me to match the TIM up against my first
RE-301 bassman and gretsch... for me at least it just made sense.

I think I went into detail about both of these in some post a few months
ago, I'll have to find it. I repeat myself too much... gettin' old!

Hey TV,

This is becoming a very imformative thread thanks very much for spending your time educating us (especially me!! )

OK - I have now asked to be included on the waiting list for the TIM pedal - last reports were about a 4 month delay

I now have to choose between probably these two delay pedals

- Maxon AD-9 (which I can get pretty easily)
and the
- Skreddy Echo (which is on about a 3 month build time and is a bit more expensive)

Whilst I mull over those choices I will do some experimenting with boost pedals that I already have with the RE-20. I have both a

- Barber LTD Silver
and a
- Fultone FatBoost 2 (which suggests it has a bass trim pot pre-gain)
Both of which claim to give very flat and un-coloured boosts to the guitars signal (It seems I have very similar taste to ruger9 with the Barber LTD's )

Barber also now do a custom shop pedal - the custom cool -

http://www.barberelectronics.com/customcool.html

which has all sorts of symmetrical clipping and a host of tone shaping so that may also be one to try in the short to medium term

This is a real learning experience for me and is invlolving a lot of head scratching and a lot of fun along the way



Oh by the way my modded Blues Junior really likes the LTD Silver as does my custom "mini-me" piggyback Vibro-Champ

I thought I would give you guys a quick update

I have managed to get hold of a SIB Mr Echo (which should be winging its way across to me as I type this)

I have got my name on the list for a TIM pedal

I have also found another pedal which may be of interest you some of you. I know Mr TV has talked at length about the pre-amp section of the RE-301 and that Brian Setzer has also used an EP-3 Echoplex in the studio. I have found out about a guy in Australia who is making a little pre-amp pedal which is designed to replicate the EP-3's pre-amp section (no delay in this pedal so you can use your existing analog delay with it) - full details are on their web-site here - I have my name on the waiting list for this one as well

I just need to learn to play the guitar properly now - no gear related excuses are left

jonhope wrote:

I thought I would give you guys a quick update

I have managed to get hold of a SIB Mr Echo (which should be winging its way across to me as I type this)

I have got my name on the list for a TIM pedal

I have also found another pedal which may be of interest you some of you. I know Mr TV has talked at length about the pre-amp section of the RE-301 and that Brian Setzer has also used an EP-3 Echoplex in the studio. I have found out about a guy in Australia who is making a little pre-amp pedal which is designed to replicate the EP-3's pre-amp section (no delay in this pedal so you can use your existing analog delay with it) - full details are on their web-site here - I have my name on the waiting list for this one as well

I just need to learn to play the guitar properly now - no gear related excuses are left

awhhh but its not the RE-301 pre amp! Let me know if you want to be on my
waiting list for THE NOCTURN..
I begin reverse engineering my RE-301 today with the help of my roland repair guy.
This pedal will be the THE preamp we've talked about, with the same controls and
an FX w/ blend and tone for inserting your own delay pedal.
Thanks to Nikko's inspiration, and my wife's encouragement.. I begin my dream of finally building a production pedal. It will be built for the gretsch player who depends on a
non master volume fender 6L6 powered amp. Sure it will work with any thing else but
I want guitarists who love BSO setzer tone to have avail. to them the magic of the
catalyst that exists between gretsch nashville and vintage fender.
I hope to have at least 50 of these by spring.

If price allows they will be dark brown lacquer with white silkscreen and creme radio knobs. switchable Db boost with input gain control and switchable Db boost and output
gain control post delay FX loop. Carbon comp resistors, burr brown opamps (sorry RC4558 chips are nice in a tubescreamer but this aint no clean boost meets TS9),
alpha pots, switchcraft i/o jacks n switches. carling stompers....

i'm still debating whether it should be just a stompbox or a small box that sits atop the
amp, so you can run back and twist the input gain like setzer does to make his guitar body feedback next to the cab. we all need theatrics in our playing!

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

awhhh but its not the RE-301 pre amp! Let me know if you want to be on my
waiting list for THE NOCTURN..
I begin reverse engineering my RE-301 today with the help of my roland repair guy.
This pedal will be the THE preamp we've talked about, with the same controls and
an FX w/ blend and tone for inserting your own delay pedal.
Thanks to Nikko's inspiration, and my wife's encouragement.. I begin my dream of finally building a production pedal. It will be built for the gretsch player who depends on a
non master volume fender 6L6 powered amp. Sure it will work with any thing else but
I want guitarists who love BSO setzer tone to have avail. to them the magic of the
catalyst that exists between gretsch nashville and vintage fender.
I hope to have at least 50 of these by spring.

If price allows they will be dark brown lacquer with white silkscreen and creme radio knobs. switchable Db boost with input gain control and switchable Db boost and output
gain control post delay FX loop. Carbon comp resistors, burr brown opamps (sorry RC4558 chips are nice in a tubescreamer but this aint no clean boost meets TS9),
alpha pots, switchcraft i/o jacks n switches. carling stompers....

i'm still debating whether it should be just a stompbox or a small box that sits atop the
amp, so you can run back and twist the input gain like setzer does to make his guitar body feedback next to the cab. we all need theatrics in our playing!

Blimey - you are going to make one - congratulations

Yes - please put me on your list for one of these pedals - if you need any of my details then please let me know and I will pm them across to you - damn I already can't wait

I sure hope that you can make some money as well as providing a much needed public service for us Setzerheads

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

i'm still debating whether it should be just a stompbox or a small box that sits atop the
amp, so you can run back and twist the input gain like setzer does to make his guitar body feedback next to the cab. we all need theatrics in our playing!

My vote would be for the small box on top of the amp

Don't care what it looks like, but if it doesn't bust my budget I#ll buy one for sure.
Now the first thing to buy is a tube amp. finally.

"Nocturn"... nicely played!!

Put me on the list for a "Nocturn" as well!

*raises hand*

sign me up!

Hey, been doing research on this EP-Pre. Sounds cool, and all the poeple who have one LOVE it, but the soundclips didn't impress me that much... at least the soundclips, TO ME, didn't sound like what everyone was describing. I was ready to put my name on the list based on the website & reviews, but the soundclips changed my mind.

Doesn't sound bad or anything, just doesn't sound like something I can use.

What a great idea tho. I'm surprised anyone actually built one, and if you actually build those Nocturns, Tavo, I'll be doubly surprised! (in a good way)

ruger9 wrote:

Hey, been doing research on this EP-Pre. Sounds cool, and all the poeple who have one LOVE it, but the soundclips didn't impress me that much... at least the soundclips, TO ME, didn't sound like what everyone was describing. I was ready to put my name on the list based on the website & reviews, but the soundclips changed my mind.

Doesn't sound bad or anything, just doesn't sound like something I can use.

What a great idea tho. I'm surprised anyone actually built one, and if you actually build those Nocturns, Tavo, I'll be doubly surprised! (in a good way)

Yeah - if its the soundclips from the link on the product web-page (the guy with the Van Halen fixation) then its not easy to really judge what the pedal is doing. Nice playing and all but a lot of amp overdrive coupled with an ultra-compressed mp3 file (the Soundclick site wont let regular member upload anything over a 128kbps which means you lose so much detail and clarity - I know because I have a small page there!)

It does seem to be a subtle thing from all accounts and maybe one of those pieces of kit that makes you feel more connected to your instrument than a tone shaping monster.

I have put my name on the list and if its ready before TV's "Nocturne" pedal then I will let you know what I think of it.