Question For Tavo

Hey buddy,

You'll know how to help me better than anyone in the world so I shall pose this question to you. Just bought A Setzer Hot Rod, but I find that my Cadillac Green Country Club re-issue sounds noticabley better. A little hotter sound to the amp and just more of that Gretsch twang. They both appear to have the same Pat Pending filtertron pu's with the same number associated with them...what up? Raised the pick up screws to the strings which seemed to make the differance not so noticable but still...

Thanks,
Brent

Brent wrote:

Hey buddy,

You'll know how to help me better than anyone in the world so I shall pose this question to you. Just bought A Setzer Hot Rod, but I find that my Cadillac Green Country Club re-issue sounds noticabley better. A little hotter sound to the amp and just more of that Gretsch twang. They both appear to have the same Pat Pending filtertron pu's with the same number associated with them...what up? Raised the pick up screws to the strings which seemed to make the differance not so noticable but still...

Thanks,
Brent

you bet..

first question, is your hotrod a post fender model ( 2004)
and does it have
the suffic "tv" at the end of it ( ie. 6120SHLTV .. )
also is your country club older than 2004.
Hotrods have "alnico bar mags" but that country club may have the
ceramic bar mags that have a hotter output, all my older gretsch models
had those ceramic mags and I dont like the sharp edge to them, hence tvjones
for me..my taste of course) I doubt this is the problem though, a well dialed
in hotrod is tasty even without tvjones..just not so "Setzer"

in general though.. raising the polescrews doesnt do much for output but rather is
for balancing string attack..kind of a no no for good Gretsch tone... A filtertron has a bar magnet

in it and the body of the pickup needs to be closer to the strings. The spec is "3/16" from botttom of both
high and low E strings to the top of the pkup cover (not the pole screws).

So..those pole screws need to come down almost flat against the pkup cover and you
need to dial these pickups in to that spec. Once you do that you will find you most likely
will lower the bass side of the neck down slightly.

having said all that.. its not easy to accomplish this on newer model fender built Gretsh guitars because they have stupid ass WOOD shims under the pickups. Those need to be popped out with a chisel (easy) and replaced with neoprene rubber shims. I use high quality mouse pad. Look in the dollar bins at the office supply for those.
To keep them in the guitar and on the tone rails when you are setting the pickups back, grab a glue stick (the rub on kind for paper) and that will hold them enough to place the pkup back and put the screw back in.

That simple and you have the ability to raise and lower the pkup heights so that your guitar sounds like its suppose to.

as wonderful as gretsch is..they are freakin irritating with things like this.

Tavo, you're wizard!

nah.. just sharing the love

heres a video from tv jones about your case

Thanks guys,

The Hot Rod is a 2006 (no tv in model number) and my country club is older than 2004. I will definetley put the posts back down and replace the wooden shims...anything else Tavo?

Thanks,
Brent

since youre gonna go diving in there, you may as well solder in a volume kit.

Mission accomplished...I'm still so use to the Country Club that it'll take a little getting use to the Hot Rod...but it's very pretty...Thanks again TV and Chimingbell..gave me the courage to do it on my own and not break a pick-up cover or anything...

Hotrods are different animals.. I am not a fan of trestle bracing too much.. Its sound
is much different than the tonepost hotrods that Setzer usually performs with. Trestles
kill the low mids bark that is signature in tonepost models..Plus the body is slightly thinner, this all makes the FMIC versions more flat in the mids with more high mids zing and sustain. Tooo much wood in there maaan!

I jones now and then for another hotrod, buy one and then end up selling it after
I get frustrated with it not sounding like my tonepost SSU.

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

Hotrods are different animals.. I am not a fan of trestle bracing too much.. Its sound
is much different than the tonepost hotrods that Setzer usually performs with. Trestles
kill the low mids bark that is signature in tonepost models..

You & I have went 'round and 'round on this one, but I did have a question & an observation:

Question:
I definitely hear that "mids bark" you speak of, and I can hear it missing in the Hot Rod. HOWEVER, on that Xmas DVD where he plays the new SSLVO for most of the show, I hear that mids bark... that new SSLVO MUST be trestle braced, no?

Observation:
Your Nocturne definitely ADDS some of that mids bark of which we speak. I'm running a Hot Rod into an EL84 Vox-like amp and when I switch on the Nocturne, it's like walking over to the amp & turning the mids up a notch or two. Well, actually it's not... not quite the same thing... the Nocturne fattens the Hot Rod up, almost as if it's got Classic PLUSes in it... what I'm trying to say is, with the Nocturne, the tressle-braced HR sounds like the great live BSO tone we both drool over... the tone with the mids bark that the new HRs (and SSLVOs?) lack.

ruger9 wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

Hotrods are different animals.. I am not a fan of trestle bracing too much.. Its sound
is much different than the tonepost hotrods that Setzer usually performs with. Trestles
kill the low mids bark that is signature in tonepost models..

You & I have went 'round and 'round on this one, but I did have a question & an observation:

Question:
I definitely hear that "mids bark" you speak of, and I can hear it missing in the Hot Rod. HOWEVER, on that Xmas DVD where he plays the new SSLVO for most of the show, I hear that mids bark... that new SSLVO MUST be trestle braced, no?

Observation:
Your Nocturne definitely ADDS some of that mids bark of which we speak. I'm running a Hot Rod into an EL84 Vox-like amp and when I switch on the Nocturne, it's like walking over to the amp & turning the mids up a notch or two. Well, actually it's not... not quite the same thing... the Nocturne fattens the Hot Rod up, almost as if it's got Classic PLUSes in it... what I'm trying to say is, with the Nocturne, the tressle-braced HR sounds like the great live BSO tone we both drool over... the tone with the mids bark that the new HRs (and SSLVOs?) lack.

Thats a real good point that it Adds something to the guitar,
but it more of a letting your pickups do a better job hearing the guitar and your fingers. MY aunts husband has an old strat copy and one of those solid state roland jazz amps, wanted to hear a nocturne through it.
I told him I hadnt thought of what might happen to a solid state
amp and the 210 cab, but he wanted to try it.. It made that thing start barkin and twangin too.. took a thin guitar and made it nice and woody. You might want to
turn the bass cut fully on, turn your mids on your amp down and move the gain
of the nocturn more to "4:30".. thats where you'll find your trestle bracer letting
out even more "wood" tone..almost like a vintage gibson SG (which can sound like
a monster tele)


btw... dont wanna arm wrestle ya over trestle vs tonepost too much...BUT..
that low mids bark from the toneposter Setzer gretsch is perhaps 20% felt 80% sonic
and yes indeed we did go over that whole video from 04' but remember that Xmas video
was the year that Setzer Sig model hit. It was advertising and being there live and hearing it, it was "bluesy" like an ES335. He even said he felt like bluesing it up or could do an instrumental surf/spy album as he continued to go crazy with the guitar at every opportunity that night. 'course he was on camera for a video so he was in crazy fun rockin character. I did notice at the Xmas video show he wasnt fighting feedback so much at the end of solo runs..

Right, BUT... that sig model IS trestle-braced, right? All the new Setzers are, right?

I still say the difference I'm hearing re the HR vs Sig is that the Sig goes thru an additional switch & 2 additional pots, capacitance loading the signal a bit more, taking some of the zing out of the tone that the HRs have. I replaced my 500K vol in my HR with a 250K and it's definitely less zingy/a bit more mids (simply due to less treble, it doesn't actually boost the mids).

So, with the 250K vol & Nocturne, it's sounding pretty sweet, as opposed to zingy.

I use an open-back, so I do play with the bass rolloff full (full OFF, counter-clockwise), and it helps get that tight articulation out of those wound strings... turn the Noc off, wound strings get mushy. Turn the Noc on, bass tightens up & gets twangy.

ruger9 wrote:

Right, BUT... that sig model IS trestle-braced, right? All the new Setzers are, right?

I still say the difference I'm hearing re the HR vs Sig is that the Sig goes thru an additional switch & 2 additional pots, capacitance loading the signal a bit more, taking some of the zing out of the tone that the HRs have. I replaced my 500K vol in my HR with a 250K and it's definitely less zingy/a bit more mids (simply due to less treble, it doesn't actually boost the mids).

So, with the 250K vol & Nocturne, it's sounding pretty sweet, as opposed to zingy.

I use an open-back, so I do play with the bass rolloff full (full OFF, counter-clockwise), and it helps get that tight articulation out of those wound strings... turn the Noc off, wound strings get mushy. Turn the Noc on, bass tightens up & gets twangy.

yes they are BUT the rev horton heat model isnt, and sounds better with its tone post
and thin lacquer top.... oops I shouldnt be endorsing such an instrument here!

ps. I forgot about that 250K pot thing you did. I guess I will hear it for the first time
today as I am finishing another tele with a Tvjones P-90 in the neck and a classic plus in the bridge I custom fitted into a vintage stamped steel bridge plate with the brass half cut barrel saddles. I was gonna go with 500K but 250K might be the right answer.
thanks for reminding me..should be fun with the nocturne..