Is it the guitar or the amp?

Hey ya'll,

I got my SSLVO home to Australia safe and sound - I think. I realized when I got home there was no reason I couldn't plug the Gretsch into the cheap little amp I got (to go with the cheap little acoustic I bought) before we headed overseas. Here's my amp:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Kustom-Sienna-16-Acoustic-Guitar-Combo-Amp-480789-i1172519.gc

When I plug the Gretsch into it I get a pretty noticeable buzz when I turn the "high" eq knob up even a little (and it gets louder as I turn the knob higher). It goes away if I put my hand or finger on anything metal on the guitar (strings, switches, tuners, tailpiece- just have to barely touch metal and the buzz stops). I have a little mini Twin Reverb that I plugged into for comparisons sake and the buzz was much less noticeable and more intermittent - but the mini twin doesn't have eq knobs to twiddle.

So, is it the guitar or the amp? And how do I fix it?

Thanks folks.

Hi Andi.

I doubt that it would be the Gretsch. Best thing to do would be head down to your local guitar shop and plug into an amp there and see what happens. I did read that the amp is an acoustic amp, so maybe it can't handle the power coming out of those TV's?

Hope this helps.

René-a-pony

andi wrote:

So, is it the guitar or the amp?

René is right, it's the amp. The Kustom Sienna amps are made for acoustic guitars with piezo pickups etc, while the Gretsch Filter'Trons are magnetic pickups. So you need to get an amp for electric guitars (like your mini Twin, except them mini's are noise makers )

Anders

Thanks guys for the input. I'll definitely take it down to the guitar shop and try some other amps but it sounds like that's the likely problem. Glad to know it's not the guitar!!

Not to be contradicting but a tweeter just completes a full spectrum audio amplification..
Whether or not an amp is for an acoustic, a trombone or a turntable...its just that. an audio amplification device and if the amp is not humming or buzzing loudly on its own (without a guitar cable inserted) it is more than likely THE GUITAR's grounding circuit.

What is telltale is when you touch a metal part of the guitar and the hum diminishes. You are in effect becoming a completion to that ground (in lame mans terms). Often times the ground wired to the bridge apparatus is shorted. with the gretsch, its the wire that runs out of a small hole
at the base of the guitar near the strap button, under the bridge tailpiece or specifically in this case the bigsby. An easy fix with the strings loosened as long as that wire has enough
lead exposed.

There is a slight possibility its the guitar cable but that is a rare thing if its a new cable (or not a monster cable). ..or worse.. a grounding issue in the guitar's wiring harness but
for me and a zillion guitar repairs, its always the improper grounding of the bridge that
yields what you have explained as the problem.

Like I said in the beginning, you could test the amp instantly by connecting your Ipod (mp3 player,etc) to it. For yrs I used an acoustic amp as a portable P.A. to various offices, classrooms when they needed to run an audio/video app for meetings. (The groove tubes space station is awesome for this).
I do hope its that econo amp though and not the guitar....

Fly me out, I'll fix it for ya!

To paraphrase myself:

"Learning guitar is cruel! Why should your equipment (gear) be any different?"

HaHaHa!

Seriously, though, while it still could be an amp., I'm more inlclined to agree with TV that it's probably either the guitar or a cable. One thing that may be overlooked, because it's happened on some guitars to me over the years, is that this could be a loose connection with the input jack. Now, your problem sounds a little different, but what happened to me, was that the guitar signal would cut in and out (almost like a crackling noise) when playing. To fix it I just grabbed an open-end box wrench and tightened the hex nut holding the input jack. Now these were not a GRETSCH guitar, but it did fix the problem, and might be something you might want to look at before getting into more involved repairs.

Be aware also, that sometimes if there's a short in a cable that will elicit the same symptoms.

Finally, I think you said that you also own an acoustic cutaway. Is it by any chance an acoustic/electric with some sort of piezo pickups? If yes, then try that guitar with the amp. and see if you still have the buzz. If not, the problem is most certainly the GRETSCH. Also, the acoustic amp. will have diff. characteristics than an electric amp., so you'll be hard-pressed to get the exact same results using the amp. with an electric guitar.

Hope that helps ye out.

Capt. Jones

It sounds like the earth (ground) wire has come loose in the guitar.
It's an easy fix but if your not confident better to take it to a competent guitar shop to have it looked at.

Cheers
John

I forgot to add that if you have any piercings you can jumper yourself to the bridge hardware and problem is solved hheeeheee (JK).... until there is a voltage surge through your
house and you become fried chicken.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I do have two cables and I do have an acoustic, so I'll do some more extensive testing.

Tavo, I found this on TV Jones' website:
http://tvjones.com/harness_toneswitch.htm

I imagine it's somewhat different in the SSLVO (with the trestle bracing it'd be impossible to pin the wires down the middle like that) but should it be basically like this? I can feel wires pinned inside the top, on either side of the F hole on the cutaway side, but that appears to be the only place they're pinned- there's a lot more slack than is shown in the TV Jones picture and it's visible through the F holes. I wish the damn thing had hinges so I could just pop the hood and tinker!

I'm not confident with wiring but I have a man here who is, so I'll ask for his assistance.

Thanks again fellas!

PS Tavo-

when i first started playing i had a Kustom amp almost just like that. i think it was the KAA65? somethin like that but it was always noisy as hell, no matter which guitar it was playin. think i still have it. anyone want it now? haha

andi wrote:

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I do have two cables and I do have an acoustic, so I'll do some more extensive testing.

Tavo, I found this on TV Jones' website:
http://tvjones.com/harness_toneswitch.htm

I imagine it's somewhat different in the SSLVO (with the trestle bracing it'd be impossible to pin the wires down the middle like that) but should it be basically like this? I can feel wires pinned inside the top, on either side of the F hole on the cutaway side, but that appears to be the only place they're pinned- there's a lot more slack than is shown in the TV Jones picture and it's visible through the F holes. I wish the damn thing had hinges so I could just pop the hood and tinker!

I'm not confident with wiring but I have a man here who is, so I'll ask for his assistance.

Thanks again fellas!

PS Tavo-

have D email me at home and I'll walk him through whatever, I know the gretsch like
my own face.... uugh! Its not a hard fix, just time and patience. beats paying a bench fee from a dingdong that likes gibson guitars. ( i like gibson, just hate workin on em)


the ground points to check are :
*at the 3 way toggle switch, these solder to the housing.
*at the back of all the pots, solders to the metal cover
*at the output jack's sleeve (not tip)
*from the splayed exposed wiring that is coming from its shielding out of the exit hole
*of the guitar body at the bigsby end pin attachment.. back to the ground solder joint
*of the pot

by the way, since you arent running off 110V there in Oz, you may need a 400V 1Meg ohm resistor in that grounding circuit. I will have to check to make sure I'm not blowin smoke up your skirt.

Okay! I just plugged in the Gretsch with 2 different cables, and plugged in the acoustic, and an ipod, and guess what- all of 'em buzz real loud when the high eq pot is turned up. So it's my crap amp! It never occurred to us to try the acoustic again, 'cause it was working fine before we went overseas in August. So something about sitting idle for 4 months pissed off my amp!

Seeing as its still under warranty I'm gonna take it back to the music shop and see if I can get them to credit what I spent on it towards a "real" amp

andi wrote:

Okay! I just plugged in the Gretsch with 2 different cables, and plugged in the acoustic, and an ipod, and guess what- all of 'em buzz real loud when the high eq pot is turned up. So it's my crap amp! It never occurred to us to try the acoustic again, 'cause it was working fine before we went overseas in August. So something about sitting idle for 4 months pissed off my amp!

Seeing as its still under warranty I'm gonna take it back to the music shop and see if I can get them to credit what I spent on it towards a "real" amp

AWESOME!! seriously. ....and anyone that spends $$ on a sig gretsch has got to plug it
into a real all tube amp.
If you are going to a guitar center, for the money get a Vox AC15 and dont pay a dime over $550 out the door. Reverb and tremelo in a class A circuit. As much as you might think its
a "beatles" amp, its more like a tweed ish fender amp. My old rhythm guitarist had one for his Gretsch roundup (like setzers sparkle duojet but looks like the SSLVO facia).
We changed the tubes and put an upgraded speaker in it, solid gold baby.

FWIW... crate makes a nice little class A 1x12 jobbie with reverb, all tube in blonde
for about $300. I think the blonde is cheaper than the newer black model


of course you can buy a Fender blues Jr...

they all need speaker upgrades, but ANYTHING is better than that funky amp y'all
bought.

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

If you are going to a guitar center,

You forget, I live in a town of 50,000 people in provincial Queensland, Australia. My options are two small, locally owned music shops - unless I wait till February when I'll be going down to Brisbane (ooh! the Big Smoke!) to see the Stray Cats. I don't wanna wait that long. But I will see what they have available and what they can order in at the place I bought the acoustic and the amp! I would've asked for your input before I bought both, but I didn't know you then


Thanks for all the info Tavo, and everyone- you've really helped immensely!

andi wrote:

tvthewiredturtle wrote:

If you are going to a guitar center,

You forget, I live in a town of 50,000 people in provincial Queensland, Australia. My options are two small, locally owned music shops - unless I wait till February when I'll be going down to Brisbane (ooh! the Big Smoke!) to see the Stray Cats. I don't wanna wait that long. But I will see what they have available and what they can order in at the place I bought the acoustic and the amp! I would've asked for your input before I bought both, but I didn't know you then


Thanks for all the info Tavo, and everyone- you've really helped immensely!

see.. I think youre SD and you can just go wherever... what an american. we think
we are the world... sad little un global people we can be.
I try to not be that way but when it comes to football, I just cant buy into your
caveman games...mwhahaha!!

go get em killa!



ps. $259 0nline
vibrochamp all tube w/ FX

So get this... I take the amp and the Gretsch back to my little guitar shop, and plug the amp in there. Plug in one of their acoustics... and the amp is silent as a mouse. Plug in an mp3 player, sounds perfect. Not a single buzz, hum or crackle coming out of the amp.

THAT MEANS IT'S MY HOUSE!!!!

So while I was there I had a look at what else they had in stock. Chances are very high that if I buy something from the floor (that they don't have to order in), I can get a discount for cash. Here are my two most likely tube amp options, if I buy from them.

Laney Lionheart L5T-112 5W 1x12
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Laney-Lionheart-L5T112-5W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=481316
I think these are made in the UK. It has a 12" Celestion Heritage in it. Price tag says $1599 AUD at my shop.

Kustom '36 Coupe
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-36-Coupe-36w-1X12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=480794
This one is made in the US. The Australian list price for this thing is $2395. My shop has it on sale right now for $1599 AUD with the black "tuck and roll."

Keep in mind everything is more expensive in Australia, it would be totally ridiculous to expect them to match the prices on the Musician's Friend website, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. Plus, the Australian dollar is only worth abou 66 US cents right now!!

Based on looks alone I much prefer the Laney. I plugged the Gretsch into it and it sounded really nice too. I will go check out the other music shop in town at some stage, but in the meantime it would appear I'm going to get used to practicing unamplified!

andi wrote:

So get this... I take the amp and the Gretsch back to my little guitar shop, and plug the amp in there. Plug in one of their acoustics... and the amp is silent as a mouse. Plug in an mp3 player, sounds perfect. Not a single buzz, hum or crackle coming out of the amp.

THAT MEANS IT'S MY HOUSE!!!!

So while I was there I had a look at what else they had in stock. Chances are very high that if I buy something from the floor (that they don't have to order in), I can get a discount for cash. Here are my two most likely tube amp options, if I buy from them.

Laney Lionheart L5T-112 5W 1x12
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Laney-Lionheart-L5T112-5W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=481316
I think these are made in the UK. It has a 12" Celestion Heritage in it. Price tag says $1599 AUD at my shop.

Kustom '36 Coupe
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-36-Coupe-36w-1X12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=480794
This one is made in the US. The Australian list price for this thing is $2395. My shop has it on sale right now for $1599 AUD with the black "tuck and roll."

Keep in mind everything is more expensive in Australia, it would be totally ridiculous to expect them to match the prices on the Musician's Friend website, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. Plus, the Australian dollar is only worth abou 66 US cents right now!!

Based on looks alone I much prefer the Laney. I plugged the Gretsch into it and it sounded really nice too. I will go check out the other music shop in town at some stage, but in the meantime it would appear I'm going to get used to practicing unamplified!

friend, you can buy international on ebay for a 1/3 that crap ass price many an amp and
have it shipped to you.
This doesnt mean a Laney is not a good amp but try to stick to a 6L6 based all tube amp
for the 'billy.

I can have my supplier send you a Tophat Club Royale brand new and its the creme of the booteek crop for the price of a laney!! aaaaaagh.

btw.... youre house, indeed. This will cure your audio woes, I use these for live sound
reinforcement and all is whisper quiet even with 4x1000 watt amps plugged into the same conduit as house light dimmers. the Ebtech filters the audio and the furman filters
your AC current. whacks it dead!

Ebtech hum eliminator (granted I use the big pro version but this one does it the same:


Furman PL-8 II(this lifts RFI interference like a monster):

Tavo, if I buy an amp on eBay from the US it'll be 110V won't it? Same for the Ebtech and the Furman. I need to get them for 240V! Also, with the dollar conversion, a Top Hat for $1500 USD is the equivalent to $2276 AUD. While a Laney for $1500 AUD is the equivalent to $988 USD.

andi wrote:

Tavo, if I buy an amp on eBay from the US it'll be 110V won't it? Same for the Ebtech and the Furman. I need to get them for 240V! Also, with the dollar conversion, a Top Hat for $1500 USD is the equivalent to $2276 AUD. While a Laney for $1500 AUD is the equivalent to $988 USD.

uh...sheeeit.. (btw.. tophats are avail in 240v) in that case, can you get a hold of a Vox?
Unless laney has changed drastically their amps are REAL bright and lean in the low end
until you crank em up. That Lion series is suppose to be more "metal"... are you metal?

ebtech and furman are universal so there must be european equivs

andi wrote:

Tavo, if I buy an amp on eBay from the US it'll be 110V won't it? Same for the Ebtech and the Furman. I need to get them for 240V! Also, with the dollar conversion, a Top Hat for $1500 USD is the equivalent to $2276 AUD. While a Laney for $1500 AUD is the equivalent to $988 USD.

Don't forget anything over $1000 AUD attracts GST as well.

andi wrote:

So while I was there I had a look at what else they had in stock. Chances are very high that if I buy something from the floor (that they don't have to order in), I can get a discount for cash. Here are my two most likely tube amp options, if I buy from them.

Laney Lionheart L5T-112 5W 1x12
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Laney-Lionheart-L5T112-5W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=481316
I think these are made in the UK. It has a 12" Celestion Heritage in it. Price tag says $1599 AUD at my shop.

Kustom '36 Coupe
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-36-Coupe-36w-1X12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=480794
This one is made in the US. The Australian list price for this thing is $2395. My shop has it on sale right now for $1599 AUD with the black "tuck and roll."

Keep in mind everything is more expensive in Australia, it would be totally ridiculous to expect them to match the prices on the Musician's Friend website, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. Plus, the Australian dollar is only worth abou 66 US cents right now!!

Based on looks alone I much prefer the Laney. I plugged the Gretsch into it and it sounded really nice too. I will go check out the other music shop in town at some stage, but in the meantime it would appear I'm going to get used to practicing unamplified!

Hi,

I do agree to a certain extent with Mr TV regarding Laney amps - I have had a couple of them over the years and they have been good but have a tendancy to be rather bright (a characteristic of the "Laney" sound) - thats not to say however that they dson't sound good - the Lionheart series are well put together and are their top-of-the-line range.

The Kustoms are cool amps also but they are rather different beasts from the Laney both in terms of the tubes they use and the overall power output (6L6s vs EL84's and 36W output compared to 5W)

So, it really depends on how you intend to use the amp - will it be used for gigs, recording sessions or just for quiet practice at home? - The Kustom will sound better at stage volumes (where you can get the power tubes working) whereas the Laney is a little underpowered for most gigs (you wont get much clean headroom out of it - it has been specifically designed to get the sound of a hard working amp at lower volumes) but should be easier to get a pleasent sound at lower volumes. Thats not to say that the Laney won't be loud even with only a 5w output because it will

jonhope wrote:

andi wrote:

So while I was there I had a look at what else they had in stock. Chances are very high that if I buy something from the floor (that they don't have to order in), I can get a discount for cash. Here are my two most likely tube amp options, if I buy from them.

Laney Lionheart L5T-112 5W 1x12
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Laney-Lionheart-L5T112-5W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=481316
I think these are made in the UK. It has a 12" Celestion Heritage in it. Price tag says $1599 AUD at my shop.

Kustom '36 Coupe
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-36-Coupe-36w-1X12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=480794
This one is made in the US. The Australian list price for this thing is $2395. My shop has it on sale right now for $1599 AUD with the black "tuck and roll."

Keep in mind everything is more expensive in Australia, it would be totally ridiculous to expect them to match the prices on the Musician's Friend website, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. Plus, the Australian dollar is only worth abou 66 US cents right now!!

Based on looks alone I much prefer the Laney. I plugged the Gretsch into it and it sounded really nice too. I will go check out the other music shop in town at some stage, but in the meantime it would appear I'm going to get used to practicing unamplified!

Hi,

I do agree to a certain extent with Mr TV regarding Laney amps - I have had a couple of them over the years and they have been good but have a tendancy to be rather bright (a characteristic of the "Laney" sound) - thats not to say however that they dson't sound good - the Lionheart series are well put together and are their top-of-the-line range.

The Kustoms are cool amps also but they are rather different beasts from the Laney both in terms of the tubes they use and the overall power output (6L6s vs EL84's and 36W output compared to 5W)

So, it really depends on how you intend to use the amp - will it be used for gigs, recording sessions or just for quiet practice at home? - The Kustom will sound better at stage volumes (where you can get the power tubes working) whereas the Laney is a little underpowered for most gigs (you wont get much clean headroom out of it - it has been specifically designed to get the sound of a hard working amp at lower volumes) but should be easier to get a pleasent sound at lower volumes. Thats not to say that the Laney won't be loud even with only a 5w output because it will

this guy sez LANEY's kick Ass! I A-m I-R-o-n M-A-nnnnnn!!

Yeah that's the other thing I was looking at- 5W! That's such a big difference! Initially the amp will just be used for practicing but ultimately I'd like to be able to use it to play (small) gigs. So the Kustom might be the better way to go. Maybe I'll just get the ebtech and the furman and play through the acoustic amp to practice and hold off on getting a big amp till I actually need it. I dunno.

andi wrote:

Yeah that's the other thing I was looking at- 5W! That's such a big difference! Initially the amp will just be used for practicing but ultimately I'd like to be able to use it to play (small) gigs. So the Kustom might be the better way to go. Maybe I'll just get the ebtech and the furman and play through the acoustic amp to practice and hold off on getting a big amp till I actually need it. I dunno.

so what does it cost to ship a 30lbs box to queensland from here? I could ship it in
pieces in cereal boxes! You just send me cash and jaffeths! (spelling?)

ever played one of these? I was foolin with one at a shop with a G&L tele in gretsch
orange. I love orange anything...

have D make a cab for ya!! these are $500

andi wrote:

Yeah that's the other thing I was looking at- 5W! That's such a big difference! Initially the amp will just be used for practicing but ultimately I'd like to be able to use it to play (small) gigs. So the Kustom might be the better way to go. Maybe I'll just get the ebtech and the furman and play through the acoustic amp to practice and hold off on getting a big amp till I actually need it. I dunno.

OK - thats cool

You can certainly use the Laney for small gigs - with tube amps the rule is if you double the amps wattage you double the volume - so a 50w amp is potenially twice as loud as a 5w amp

So, the Laney will be loud enough for smal gigs but it will depend on the volume of your drummer (no joke - some drummers are willing and able to adapt their styles and drumming voluem accordingly whereas others only have one volume - maximum!!!). It also depends on the type of musci you want to play - if you want to have a clean guitar sound at gigging levels or just on the edge of break-up (in a typical rockabilly style) thenyou would have to run the Laney on its clean channel and probably mic it up so it sits nicely in the band mix and doesnt get lost. If you want to play more "bluesy" stuff then the Laney will be ideal as it will be naturally overdriving at stage levels

Other alternatives you may consider (as Mr TV has suggested) would be something from the Fender range (Blues Junior etc) or a Vox - their AD range is really not bad at all (I was in a band for a while where the second guitarist had a AD30 - 30W transistor amp with a tube in the pre-amp and it sounded pretty decent - he easily got a good rockabilly sound out of it) or a step up in the range to their AC15CC - you could pick up a decent second hand one on e-bay for a lot less than either the Laney or Kustom

I hope this has helped